1500 Days to Freedom

Think different and escape the rat race.

Ask the Readers: Do you ever feel Judgmental about Money?

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Hi there, Mrs. 1500 today.

screen-shot-2016-10-09-at-8-29-04-pmActually, we’re tag-teaming this post, so Mrs. 1500 will be here in a moment to recap last week’s answers to the question, “Has Money Changed You?”

But this week’s post, coupled with a camping trip last weekend made me realize that I am starting to become super judgmental about how other people spend their money.

But first, let’s look at last week. Take it away, Mr. 1500!

Mustard Seed Money stated something that I’ve been thinking about for quite a while now. That is, money gives us the security to let our real selves shine through. I think I’m more real now that I’ve even been:

On the flip side I feel like I can take more risks on projects since I’m not as worried about a paycheck. This has worked in my benefit since my risk aversion has greatly diminished and I am more comfortable speaking my mind at work.

Reader G-dog makes a good point in that it is impossible to separate money from our lives:

How do you separate the money from everything else – age, experience, self-esteem, relationships, etc.?
I think I am less anxious, I pay less attention to money on average, I pay more attention to investing, I am not as driven as when I was younger.

Physician on Fire’s mentality echoes mine. I too had a lake house, but like him, I just don’t care what anyone else thinks now:

To be honest, now that I have more of it, I feel no need to show it. When I first started making money, I had to have the big waterfront home. Let the world know I’d arrived.

Roadmap2Retire shared my financial insecurity:

I used to spend many a nights worrying about my financial situation dreaming that I would go broke. Now that we are much more comfortably and stable financially, those nightmares are gone

And Jeff from Jersey commented on the Porsche GT4 that I was carsitting:

How are you restraining yourself from not having your own “Mr. 1500’s Day Off,” and taking that garage sitting Porsche out for a spin? Just make sure to drive it home backwards to roll the mileage back. (hehe)

Jeff, you have no idea. I had all kinds of crazy, devious and wicked thoughts about the GT4. That Porsche and I were going places. Mountain roads, sweeping country highways and hell, even the Taco Bell drive-thru. Then, my friend took the keys with him. Hey friend, if you’re reading, just kidding! Maybe…

tawny
At least Spendosaurus got to pose, Tawny Kitaen style, on the hood of the Porsche

So back to this week’s question: Do you ever feel judgmental about money?

Let me explain. We went camping last weekend. We went to the Yogi Bear campground near us, and we’ve been a couple of times before – but we’ve always stayed at a specific site that is at the top of the campground and far away from most everyone else. We choose these spots on purpose because they are big, and we’re usually camping with a friend so it’s a nice place for the girls to all play.

Long-time readers will remember that when we first moved to Colorado, we lived in Douglas County, and our neighbors were the ultra-spendy types. We actually had a conversation with each other within two weeks of moving in, asking each other if we wanted to move back to our old city.

We lost $13,000 when we sold our house, and I was happy to be rid of it. (It was nice to be able to afford losing $13,000, too.) The reason we moved was 100% because of the neighbors. They all seemed to be participating in this unspoken contest: “Who can visibly spend the most money?”

I had Douglas County flashbacks while camping last weekend.

Because of the altitude that this campground is located at, they close in early October. This was their last weekend open, and they were having their Halloween weekend, complete with Trick-or-Treating and a campsite decorating contest.

We didn’t know this before we got there, but had planned to go into the tourist town just outside the campground, so we picked up two bags of Halloween candy.

Apparently everyone who was camping this weekend took the campsite decorating contest dead-serious, because there were decorations to rival that of the most crazy neighbor you have.

screen-shot-2016-10-09-at-8-24-40-pm

And suddenly I was whisked back in time to 2012, when we lived in Douglas County, and everyone competed for everything – as long as they could look like they were spending money on it.

screen-shot-2016-10-09-at-8-25-16-pm

And instead of enjoying the weekend, all I could think of was how pathetic this whole display was.

Which then made me feel really judgmental. It isn’t my business how they spend their money. And I don’t know these people – won’t ever see them again. Why do I spend even one moment caring about them?

So I started to think about the people in my life I do care about. I’m judgmental about them, too. (At least I’m consistent…)

But I see my friends and family spending money they don’t have on things they don’t need. But it isn’t my business, so why should I care?

It dawned on me last night when Mr. 1500 and I were taking a walk with the girls. I get so mad when people waste their money because I’ve seen the freedom money provides. And it doesn’t really take huge sacrifices to get there.

Mr. 1500 and I had flip phones long past the time they were cool. We’ve always looked for cheaper phone service (Thanks, Republic Wireless!). We drive old cars, wear the same clothes for decades (literally) and generally don’t spend a lot of money on things that don’t matter to us.

We drink high quality coffee (no, NOT  Kopi Luwak. Eww. Just eww.) We spend money on good beer. We spend too much money on bikes – but I’ve had mine for more than 15 years, so $1,300 initially works out to less than $100 a year.

But I have the freedom to live my life the way I choose. I should live and let live.

Do you find yourself being judgmental about money? How do you handle it?

 

Oh, one more thing. Check out our interview over at Mostly Mindful with my South African friends!

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Comments

  1. Sporty and I often find ourselves gobsmacked by how much people will spend on stuff like kids’ toys for example. I never thought of it as being judgmental, though I guess if I’m honest it totally is.

    Thanks for including your Spotlight On post here btw! 🙂

    • Kids toys are so easy to get sucked down the rabbit hole. You buy this thing, then it needs that thing to go with it, and suddenly you’ve spent hundreds on stupid things your kids only play with for a short time. Getting the grandparents to stop is even harder…

  2. I caught myself doing this recently. Luckily, my sister quickly called me out. It’s none of my business if other people don’t want to save for their future. I prioritize good food, drinks, and travel. I’ve intentionally taken pay cuts twice in the past two years to take risks on pursuing career moves that would make me happier. My choices certainly aren’t right for everyone, but they have felt pretty damn good for me.

    • I need your sister to come visit me, too.

      I’m pretty bossy, and to see someone doing something wrong makes me want to show them the error of their ways. But you’re right – it’s none of my business.

      • Just because it is a different choice than you would make doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You prioritize good beer and coffee. Maybe they prioritize Halloween decorations.

        Unless someone is asking you to lend them money, how and why they spend what they have is absolutely none of your business. And you shouldn’t waste your time or energy thinking about it much less commenting on it to them or others.

        • Sometimes these choices to effect us all though. As I mentioned in another comment, I think the decorations were only part of a spendy lifestyle. Some of these folks had custom pickups worth well over $50,000.

          The crowd reminded me of the people in our old spend-crazy neighborhood. When the Great Recession happened. around 10% of the homes around us went into foreclosure. When people have to be bailed out by the government, someone has to pay…

  3. I’m totally judgemental how others spend their money, but I think it’s hard not to be. Just this weekend my neighbor, who just bought a brand new Toyota Highlander was complaining because their AC just went out (right at the end of summer!) And they had to scrounge up the money for that too. Don’t stretch beyond your means!

  4. I try not to be. I remind myself that I don’t know their circumstances. You never know maybe they made millions on the stock market or inheritance. Maybe you live next to another low key Warren Buffet type. Since I don’t know this largely keeps it in check. This unfortunately does not work for family where I know the truth. Then I struggle.
    Full Time Finance recently posted…The Benefits of Financial IndependenceMy Profile

    • And that’s the thing I continually find myself forgetting. I don’t know their circumstances.

      On the other hand, if I can see that you are struggling, it’s hard to be supportive when you spend large amounts on dumb stuff. It’s also hard to keep my mouth shut.

  5. I cringed when a coworker’s AC was out over the summer, so she got a new car without even looking into the cost of repair. I was more frustrated by the noise in the office as she told people about it and then took them out to show it off. This coworker also talks about going to the casino, another silent judgemental cringe from my cube.
    On the flip side, I talked 1 coworker into contributing to the 401k for the company match, and enlightened another that an HSA is not an FSA.
    I have in other ways realized that my mind jumps first to judgement before I can appreciate what I’m seeing. I know my fashion sense isn’t great so I stick to basics, but that person in the ‘out there’ outfit is trying ‘something’, and they got out of the house. I’m working on it.
    Happy Monday!

    • My sister is like your co-workers, spending ridiculous amounts of money because in her words, “I can’t take it with me when I die.”

      So I keep quiet because I know I won’t change her mind. But then she surprises me out of nowhere by telling me that she went to Target and saw a cute pair of shoes, but didn’t buy them because she didn’t need them and that’s what I would have done.

      It made me feel really good that she saw my philosophy and made an adjustment.

      We just got a 401(k) at work. I’m urging everyone to participate…

  6. I hate disposable holiday decorations, especially those fake spider webs, but more so because of the environmental, not financial, damage. You never know, these people could be taking decorations they use yearly at home and bringing them camping. But yes, if they’re the type that spend $100s of dollars on decor for each major holiday and toss half their purchases due to the disposable nature, I say judge away.

    • Yeah, so when we lived in Douglas County, neighbors would literally throw away the plant – and pot it was in – at the end of the season when the plant died.

      So I don’t hold out much hope that these people were re-using those fake spider webs. Maybe some of that other stuff. But knowing my former neighbors, I can see them tossing it out to buy new next year to “keep the look fresh.”

  7. That’s one of the downsides of running a personal finance blog, the judgement! I am definitely more aware of what other people are doing and how they are spending their money.

    Every day when I walk out to my car at the end of the day, I can’t help but notice all of the late model Mercedes in the office parking lot and I catch myself wondering if they should really be spending their money on them.

    I tell myself that they must be multi-millionaires so it is not an issue for them. I know for a fact that they are not…
    Jon @ Be Net Worthy recently posted…How I Roll: Financial Products and ServicesMy Profile

    • “I am definitely more aware of what other people are doing and how they are spending their money. Yes, but not in an “I’m envious of you” way, right? I hear you.

      I work with a guy who just turned 25 today, and drives a $90,000 car. Yeah, he makes good money, but I think of all the investing that money could be doing, and I wish I could steer him toward better life choices.

      Oh look at me being all judge-y again… Sigh.

  8. Would be lying if I said I am not critical of others spending. Can think of three times last week that this happened involving friends or family. Discovering that more often these situations usually revolve around spending on children – it seems the more you spend on your kids, the more it proves to the world that you love them.

    We love our son, but he will not be rolling in brand name clothes that he outgrows or ruins by the end of the week.

    And your post’s pictures reminded me of my friend’s Halloween party from last year. The guy can’t find two nickels to rub together but blows hundreds of dollars on decorations for a party. To each their own.

    Keep living the good life – 1500’s.

    • Unfortunately I know too many people who can always find money to blow on things that don’t matter, but can never find enough to invest.

  9. Absolutely. A family member wants to spend $60k+ + on a luxury SUV (which is about equal to their salary) and while I want to scream that it’s a terrible idea, I just keep quiet because it’s their money and if they want to work until they are 70, it won’t affect me.

    • Yikes. The thing I don’t like about these stories (and the reason I feel that I can be judgmental) is this: As soon as the next big recession hits, unemployment reaches 10% and the stock market crashes 30%, these are the types of folks who will most likely have to be bailed out.

  10. I admit sometimes I do get judgemental about all the wasteful spending I see. It’s hard not to after the years of saving and making frugal choices.

    While I internally think others make dumb financial choices, I would never say anything or otherwise act on those thoughts. I (mostly) keep my mouth shut. I realize everyone gets to make their own choices….even if they are a financial train-wreck.

    • I think it stems from wanting to help them out. Financial education isn’t taught in schools, and I apparently know how to save money better than they do. I want to point them down the path of financial wellness.

      But it always comes out judge-y.

  11. Ayuuup. I really try to mind my own business, but it’s hard not to be judgmental when you see people making spendy choices. My issue is that it appears they don’t know another way–I have an internal struggle debating whether I should let them know there’s another way or if I should keep my mouth shut.

    99% of the time I keep my mouth shut.

    Why?

    Because I don’t like people making comments about how *I* spend money.

    For example, Mr. Picky Pincher and I are doing a kitchen remodel right now. While we’re doing it on the cheap, it’s still several thousand dollars that we’re spending–and yes, we still have debt to pay off. That sounds like an insane thing to do, but for us, it works out financially and will keep us happy while we start paying on our student loans for the next 18 months.

    There’s so much we don’t know as outsiders about someone else’s finances. Best to just trudge along, doing our own thing, rather than to judge!
    Mrs. Picky Pincher recently posted…30-Day Frugal Cleanse Week 2My Profile

  12. Thank you for the shout out. I think you said it better than me, “money gives us the security to let our real selves shine through.”

    There have definitely been times that I’ve been judgmental about the ways others spend money.

    I have to constantly tell myself to “stay in my own lane” and control what I have the ability to control. There’s no point in getting myself worked up and letting other people affect my mood.
    Mustard Seed Money recently posted…The Dream: House with a PoolMy Profile

  13. I’m big on the concept that personal finance is personal. What I value isn’t at all what someone else might value, so I try not to pass any value judgments based solely on what people choose to buy.

    For example, a lot of people in the FIRE community are travelers and you don’t often see people judge people for spending on traveling. But if I’m a homebody who likes to stay at home, traveling could, to me, seem like a huge waste of money.

    Instead, my values might be in buying new toys or gadgets, having the latest phone, etc.

    It’s not about what we buy that matters. What ultimately matters is whether we are meeting the goals we have set, and whether we really are able to afford the things that we want to spend our money on. If you’re doing that, then there’s really no reason to judge someone for buying a plane ticket, or spending money on a new car, or whatever.

  14. It is hard for me to watch people squander money… especially when I know that they don’t have the money to spend! I do my best to ignore it, although it is hard sometimes.

    The hardest part for me is when some of my close friends or family spend money on things that don’t make sense. I talk to my brother all the time about money, investments and building wealth. He always agrees 100% with everything we talk about and he gets me to believe he wants to always make smart decisions about money. The only problem is his actions tell a different story and it is so frustrating!

    I am at the point now that I don’t try to fight with him on it anymore. I just do my best to support him no matter what. When he drives home in a new car after selling his other car (for a loss), I just congratulate him and tell him how cool his car is, even though inside I want to grab him and start shaking him.

    I guess I can only control what I do with my money. It is hard, especially when it’s family, but I have certainly tried to become less judgmental towards them.

    • I know I can only control myself. I struggle with this in many different ways.

      It’s tough to watch someone you love make mistakes – or what you perceive to be a mistake.

  15. Yes, sometimes I just need to get off my high horse and realize that a lot of people have made money related mistakes, including me. But also that everyone has different priorities in their lives at that moment that sometimes don’t make sense to me. If that high end wardrobe makes you happy at it’s something you save for after funding your Roth, well good for them! If I put more energy and time into reaching my own goals, that’s even better.
    Amanda S recently posted…When Temptation Strikes…My Profile

  16. Oh yeah…I have a hard time not being judge mental especially when I know their situation. I grew up poor, I know what’s it’s like to not have A loaded Xmas bc parents couldn’t afford it. One year, one of our neighbors was Santa for the street. He surprised us with small gifts. Those were our gifts that xmas and it was awesome. Sad but sweet memory. It’s really hard for me listening to my in laws. They always complain about money and how they are taxed to death and they can’t retire bc of the government, etc. my hubby is also sympathetic towards their cause. I try to remind him, he grew up wealthy. Which he says no to. Constantly says they were a suffering middle class. Umm they were way upper middle class. His family thinks they know poor because they were the poorest in their social circle. It’s really hard for me to relate. Sigh…

    • My parents complain about taxes, too. Honestly, that’s a nice problem to have. WAY better than not having to pay taxes because they don’t make enough.

  17. I live just up the road from Yogi in the town I’m assuming you are referring to as the tourist town. I totally understand what you’re saying about the DougCo attitude now, but it was not always like this. I’m having to come to grips with the fact that my small town is no more. As you can imagine, there’s plenty of opportunity to be judgmental, but we try to resist unless it’s egregious (and it often is…). The nice thing is that our neighbors often gift our kids with their excess since they all think we’re poor. I don’t consider that to be taking advantage as they all know what we do for a living and if they thought about it for a minute they’d realize our spartan living was intentional.

    • Hi Diana-

      “I’m having to come to grips with the fact that my small town is no more.”

      Yep, Jellystone! Maybe the key is realizing that there is always beauty to be found. No matter how many t-shirt shops open up in EP, you can still sit on a rock and watch the river to gaze at the mountains. And I think most people are good deep down. Perhaps the land yacht SUV is the result of insecurity.

      “…if they thought about it for a minute they’d realize our spartan living was intentional.”

      Totally love it! Can’t improve on that even one bit.

  18. I’m reminded of a weekend camping trip we took a few years ago – Christmas in July. It was an actual competition, so needless to say, it was completely over the top. Fun to watch, but…wow! My kids did win a small prize for a coloring contest, so they didn’t think too much about us not having all the fancy decorations.

    When I’m being judgmental about other’s spending habits, it’s a defense mechanism I use to stop my desire to “keep up with the Joneses”. So, yes, I am passing judgement and am a bit smug about it in thinking they may have the new car or the big fancy house, but I have money in the bank. The worst part is, I assume they are unhappy with their lives – I imagine them stressed by the boatload of debt they must have and how miserable life must be behind closed doors. Now that I actually write that, I feel horrible! The truth is, I don’t really know the truth and should really make more of an effort to stop being so damned judgmental.

    • That’s interesting, the defense mechanism idea. I never thought about that.

      I don’t think I’ve ever stopped to consider how they feel with all their stuff. Are they overwhelmed? Proud of their purchases? Or are they only satisfied with the whatever until the shiny wears off?

      That sounds judgmental, too.

  19. I’m super judgmental with some of my friends’ decisions with money — but often, it’s justified. Like, not in a subjective, this is my opinion way…objectively justified. So whatever: judge away, right?

    Everything else in life is free game for judgment: political views, whether an action’s moral or not, the way people dress, whether this movie or song is cool or not. I mean, with so much at stake with our finances, why not subject that area of our lives to the same critiques? So what if it’s taboo. Fuck taboo.
    Done by Forty recently posted…The Middle Class & Income by LocationMy Profile

  20. I have ruined or simply let go of many relationships and opportunities because I’ve judged people based on their spending habits. Only in this last year have I grown tolerance and accepted that I don’t actually have control over the universe. It’s easy to say, “what does it matter? It’s not you or your life.”, but that’s not entirely true. We’re all connected and our actions make a difference. Collectively, our behaviors are big enough to destroy communities and ecosystems: Water tables get contaminated. Radiation leaks into the soil. Smog causes lung disease. And yes: climate change. Once you’ve connected the dots and figured out how it all comes together you realize judgement is justified and vital not only to protect our community and the environment, but also our basic personal freedoms… like access to clean, plentiful water.. having a home that isn’t destroyed by rising seas or storms, or wildfire… even enjoying favorite foods like coffee, almonds and an abundance of fish… all being threatened by climate change. But it’s a fine line: advocating for what you feel is important and right and allowing others the same. It will be a continuous struggle, but now I just try to be helpful in ways that support my view of the world. So right now I’m helping out a single mom with cancer. I think she came into some money via an insurance claim from one of the dad’s because she spends a *lot* of money and resources on herself and her kids. Right now I am going into her home and helping with meals and caring for the kids and it’s very hard to see how much waste they produce. I mean, I take out bags and bags of trash each day and it makes me wince to be the one dumping it all… but I’m doing it and without complaint. I’m not there to get on my high horse, I’m there to support a sick mother. Although, it’s funny she said I should start a business helping people declutter and I told her that I would be a fine idea except I my propensity to tell people that they’re wasteful planet-killers. She just sat there and looked at me and said “Oh…”.

    • Like I said at the end of the article, I’ve seen the freedom that having money can give you. And the changes to your finances don’t have to be all that big to achieve the freedom…

      It’s hard to not share with others who haven’t discovered it yet.

  21. Usually, I’m not judgmental of how other people spend money. I think it is great that the neighbors are spending a lot of money on Halloween decorations. It’s a gift to the neighborhood. Even when I’m judgmental, I keep it to myself…mostly… *cough* lake house *cough*…

  22. Everyone is judgmental about something. Those people that you judge are also judging you – wondering why you are so “miserly” and have “no holiday cheer”.

    Is it right? No. Is it pretty normal? Yep.

    But, you are free from caring about their judgements and they are trapped by the feeling of being judged. Survival used to depend on being part of their tribe or community, so humans are very easily controlled by judgements.

    Maybe if you got enough FIRE people there and you all made judgemental looks toward them, you could make them return their decorations and put that money toward an S&P 500 etf or something. (I’m being sarcastic.)

    We should all strive to not judge others and try to care less about what others think about us.
    Eric Bowlin recently posted…Automate Your Business – 18 Ridiculously Awesome Ways to Go on AutopilotMy Profile

  23. We can totally relate to your Douglas County feeling — where we used to live (big city) was the epitome of visible wealth, and we couldn’t wait to get away from that. And even in our small mountain town now, there are the parts of town that are super swanky and show-off-y, and then there are the neighborhoods that are more normal. We definitely made the intentional choice to buy in the more middle class neighborhood, but even here we see people doing stuff that we totally judge (some neighbors recently bought a monstrosity of a boat — that one is top of mind). Or we hear our next door neighbors lamenting how they can’t save, but then a new car shows up in their driveway a few weeks later… hmm. Overall we try not to judge, since we don’t know anyone else’s situation, and like to assume that we’re completely surrounded by millionaires next door. But when we hear someone actually complain about money and then follow that with a big spend, it’s hard not to judge!
    Our Next Life recently posted…How Combined Finances Helped Us Get to FIRE FasterMy Profile

  24. “(Fill in name) it’s none of your business.” Makes me sleep better at night when I’m reminded that it’s none of my business when being judgmental. My wife and I invoke the phrase to one another when we’re feeling judgmental and it’s affecting our emotions.

  25. I think it’s like most things, parenting being a similar example. We want to feel like our choices are the better choices so we surround ourselves with like-minded people and when others do things differently we can sometimes feel smug or superior. Similarly, I may have different opinions but generally keep my mouth shut unless they are truly dangerous (such as my cousin wanting a co-signer to buy a 40k truck on a minimum wage income, or if someone is beating their children).

    The problem in every day life for me is often the grey areas where I am drawn into it inadvertently. For example, I work right downtown in a huge touristy area and my colleagues often spend their lunches “window shopping.” It sometimes makes me feel like a heel for not wanting to go out and shop with them but I’ve told them that lunch was the only time I could exercise, and so I walk during my lunch hours. It makes me look more like a health nut than someone who doesn’t want to spend money.

    I think for many of us, the worst is listening to people complain about how hard it is to get by when the same people are making poor choice after poor choice. It may be none of my business what people do with their money but I don’t want to hear about it, either. There are only so many times we can hear the broken record of complaints before we point out that maybe…just maybe…they are the victims of their own foolish decisions.

  26. I have a cousin (A former financial advisor), who spent so much on clothes, vacations, and looking rich, that it cost him his career. (A long story worthy of a spot on 20/20) Judgmental? That’s an understatement. I was furious that he threw away his future to look the part. As kids we were very close. During his “look the part” 10 or so years, I never saw or heard from him. Now that his career/wife/lifestyle are gone, we are reconnecting. Actually met his kids, 5 and 7, for the first time this past weekend.

    A friend spent (financed) $8000 on clothes to resell through parties. How dumb is that? But, it’s her money. I think my judgmentalness(is that a word?) goes up with the stupidness.

  27. Yes, I’m judgy. But I’m ok with that because I reap the rewards from others’ spending choices.
    We had a girl four months ago, and everyone warned us how much it would cost, hint: A LOT!!. We bought everything second hand or had it borrowed/donated, and we’ve spent a whopping $600-700 (including medical expenses) on our little tyke, and she wants for naught. My wife second-handed maternity clothes for pennies on the dollar.
    We found new-to-us designer and/or vintage furniture for our home for dimes on the dollar.
    I did a complete remodel of our bathroom for $450 with Craigslist and our local ReStore for all the tile, flooring, vanity, lighting, etc.
    I bought a $1200 TV from someone for $200. He said it didn’t work. I did a little research and found the probable cause to be the capacitors, so with $1.20 in new capacitors, a soldering iron, a screwdriver and a couple YouTube videos, we upgraded to an awesome TV….I could go on.
    If your willing to delay gratification, bargain hunt and haggle, there’s no reason to pay even half price for almost ANYTHING. (Even homes, we got ours at auction.)

  28. I’m definitely judgmental but it’s hard not to be when I spend so much time thinking about my own money. My friends know I’m really into all the personal finance stuff so I never voice any of my concerns about their spending because I don’t want them to feel like they can’t talk to me about money. Sometimes I can sense the hesitation when they start talking about something they’ve recently purchased and I tell them that it’s fine since everyone has different priorities. I try really hard not to condemn them for anything so we can always be honest with each other, as friends should be. But if there are opportunities to talk about better options, I always use them.
    Kate recently posted…September 2016 ExpensesMy Profile

  29. First up. Love the blog.

    I have to comment on the carsitting thing. What kind of friend gets you to look after a car and takes the keys with them? I am lucky enough to have a friend worth close to a billion dollars (seriously). He regularly leaves cars with me when he heads overseas or just gets a new one. There is no question that I get full use of the cars while they are soaking up space in my garage.

    I am very judgemental on the money thing. I have to bite my tongue when people tell me what they are spending their dollars on and I know that their situation does not support it. I do love it though, when people ask for my help.

    • “I am lucky enough to have a friend worth close to a billion dollars (seriously). He regularly leaves cars with me when he heads overseas or just gets a new one.”

      Ummm, I’ll be over next time your friend drops one of his babies off with you.

      I feel a little sorry for my friend. He places loads of value in the car. I’m past that point in my life now. Cars are a necessary evil used to get places.

      “I do love it though, when people ask for my help.”

      Does anyone ever ask? I never get asked. Except for money itself and the answer to that is always the same:

      “NO!”

      • I think this is a green light to stick your oar in and start offering advice. If someone is readily asking for money they must know they suck with it? Then if they still turn down the advice, you can be done and dusted with them or at least feel free to judge away.

        I think if as long as people are not getting into debt to fund their stupid purchases then it’s up to them and we should hold back on the judging quite so much. That’s a pretty big if with some people though isn’t it?!

        That isn’t too say we can’t mock them on our blogs, but in person judging isn’t going to help. Again you can try to show them other (better) ways to use their money and live by example but if they know this and then still squander money on crap then you have to make the assumption that crap makes them more happy than freedom. Not everyone thinks like the FIRE community for better or worse…

        Anyway that was politicians answer to the original question, if you just wanted a straight answer then the answer is YES! 🙂

  30. I feel a common problem for people who spend money on seemingly silly things is that they look at what their neighbor to the right just bought (Tesla), and then the neighbor to their left (camper), and then the neighbor across the street (hot tub), etc… and the problem becomes turning all these people into one imaginary collective person who owns all these things. Which makes them feel like they are missing out and need to keep up.

    Even we conscientious spenders can fall into this trap, but instead of feeling the need to purchase these same luxuries we become judgmental about what other people spend money on because those same things aren’t fulfilling to us. But, perhaps that family with the camper van had a life dream of piling the family in and visiting all the Natiinal Parks every summer. So, the camper van is not some money pit to them but reasonable expense to fulfill the way they want to spend time with their family.

    Just another perspective that can hopefully make us feel more gracious and less judgemental.

  31. “everyone who was camping this weekend took the campsite decorating contest dead-serious”

    I see what you did there.

    If a primary mission of your site is to open people’s eyes to the self-destruction that overspending can be, you’ve got every right to be at least disappointed, if not judgmental at the displays of excess.

    What you’re assuming, which may or may not be true, but most likely is true, is that people are spending themselves into a longer career of servitude, and away from a happier life. How can you not judge that?

    Oh, and thanks for the mention in the intro!

    Best,
    -PoF

  32. We’ve seriously dialed down the money judgmentalism around here. It’s almost entirely reserved for fitness, nutrition and raising children nowadays. Which is equally pointless as money, but those are the areas my wife and I still find ourselves noticing in comparison to other families we know including close friends.

    Your mailbox must be stuffed full of emails from people judgmental about your lifestyle. If it’s not saving enough, then it’s not spending enough. Or not earning enough. Why not start a company, get a third job, buy/sell stuff on eBay. For the same reasons those emails don’t change what you’re doing, it shouldn’t be a big leap to stop comparing yourself with others. Judging is almost always 100% about drawing comparisons in a negative light and is probably cardinal sin #1 when trying to feel better about your own life. That’s my two cents.

    And I get the point of this post, but is that *really* the best example you could find? Dissing some folks who are only spending $15 / night to car camp and brought along $75 of Halloween decorations from the dollar store? The biggest problem is seeing things with absolutely no background about what’s going on in someone’s else’s life. It could easily be the one vacation they’ll take all year and you saw the big splurge. We’ve done plenty of camping in Colorado and it’s probably the cheapest vacation imaginable outside of sleeping on a friend’s couch for a few days.

    • More like $75/night, but that is still small compared to what a nice room in a hotel costs. What we didn’t show, and which made me think the situation goes far beyond the decorations, were the jacked up rigs many of these folks showed up in. A top of the line pickup truck can easily run over $50,000 and many of these people had at least $20,000 into them.

  33. I recall talking to a co-worker a few years back who gets a new car every two years. We’re the same age…52 now (48 back then). He told me he “didn’t know what it’s like to NOT have a car payment.”

    I told him, that someday I’d wave to him as I ride my bike past his place of employment after I retire. That day will be Dec 30th, 2016.

    He’s been through at least one additional car since then and wears nice suits (he’s a “big shot manager” afterall). Ha Ha. He’ll be working forever and always have a new car to support.

    • “I told him, that someday I’d wave to him as I ride my bike past his place of employment after I retire. That day will be Dec 30th, 2016.”

      Awesome!

      And it’s amazing how cars alone doom so many to years of additional servitude. We’d all be a lot better off if we all just drove Corollas.

      • Just today, our employer fired an office worker that purchased a $65K Audi about a month ago!

        (surely, she has 6 month’s of living expenses saved up!)

  34. I think its a feeling we all have felt once in our lives. I tend to feel it on the highway when I see a Maserati or BMW. I think who are they trying to impress? But then I just laugh it off, like who cares. The smart PF geeks all have favorite categories in our budgets where we splurge. Maybe the campers don’t even have a budget and live above means, but it is something we can’t control so why be judgmental? Fun post thanks.
    EL recently posted…Personal Finance Myths We Need to IgnoreMy Profile

  35. I judge people all the time, because that’s what we do as humans. We are very good at it. I’ve found that just accepting my judgement and the fact that I do it is quite liberating, and in fact makes me more empathetic. Once I catch myself I try and put myself in their shoes and see the world though their eyes. It is only after I do this that I can have a rational conversation because then I am coming from a place of genuinely wanting to help someone rather than judge. People can sense this and sometimes are a little more open to what I have to say. When I am caught in judgement people shut down. This is a huge area where mindfulness meditation has helped me.

  36. Yup, I’ve been judgemental, a lot. I now allow myself to be super judgemental on my blog, generally using real life examples, but I won’t gossip to people I directly know about other’s people habits. So, yes, I’m judgemental, but I keep it confined to my blog. In the past, I’ve openly criticized other people’s choices (friends, family) and that just led to them antagonizing me when I was trying to help. So now I’m much more careful about it
    Stockbeard recently posted…Can you retire on 1.5 million?My Profile

  37. Wow, reading the above comments it looks like pretty much everyone in the FI community is jugdemental in some way (we, and especially me, are no exception). However, I’m trying to give it a positive spin and try to make people think, rather than bashing them on the decision (that works counter productive anyways). No success yet, but at least it makes me feel better.
    Team CF recently posted…Thermostats and PancakesMy Profile

  38. I do feel judgmental at times. We have some friends that roll their eyes at our frugality. They all make many times our income but are buried in debt and thinking that is just fine because they have the stuff they want. No security. No plan for the future. Just lots of new stuff. And they roll their eyes at us? It is frustrating and that is when the Judgy Train rolls into town. Lol!
    I don’t feel good about it and we keep it to ourselves but it leaks out through our kids. We went to a birthday party for our 2 yr old nephew a few weeks back. He is 2 so we got him a bunch of mylar balloons…which he adored and played with all day. Because he is TWO. His grandma got him an iPad Air. Whaa? My husband and I were careful to smile pleasantly but our 8 yr old pipes up, “An iPad? That’s dumb. That’s too much too spend on a little kid.” Oh, dear. Our thoughts spewed out everywhere. Everyone tittered nervously and we changed the subject. So…yeah.

  39. I’ll be the first to admit I’m extremely judgmental about how others handle their money. I don’t say anything about it and the judgment stays in my head (unless I complain to my GF). One of my pet peeves is when people complain about things they can easily fix. Complain that you are broke but eat out every meal – easy fix. Complain that you are out of shape but don’t take 30 minutes away from Netflix time to work out – easy fix. Believe me I complain as much as the next person, but I at least try to remedy the items that are an easy fix. That’s why I spend an hour 4 days a week on my fitness and probably many more hours on my finances, because those are things that I have control over and bring me happiness.
    Fervent Finance recently posted…Upping the Emergency FundMy Profile

  40. The hard part for me is when I see people I care about making their lives unnecessarily hard because of the money choices. I really want my friends and family to be happy and have more options. A friend of mine was making such good progress on getting out of debt. After 6 months of listening to her complain about how much money stress she was under and how miserable she felt, things were finally starting to lift. Then she bought a brand new car… and honestly my heart just sank. Why go back to that again? I couldn’t even congratulate her on the car. If she would had the $30k in the bank to pay cash it would have been a whole other story. She started to bring up how the payments are stressful and how she really can’t afford to take time off of work because of it (for sick days), and I… I don’t know, I just can’t go there. I like to be open in money conversations, but we might have to go back to it not being polite conversation.
    Ms. Montana recently posted…August ExpensesMy Profile

    • I have a co-worker that has done the same thing about 5 times in the past 17 years that I’ve worked with him.

      1) complain about how much debt he has
      2) get out of debt (by selling extra cars he didn’t need)
      3) buy more cars!
      4) repeat

  41. Yes, but I tend to keep it to myself or like-minded friends. For me it’s almost painful when friends and acquaintances whine about money or even break down because they can’t afford to pay rent. See I feel for people and I don’t want anyone to have to be under that financial distress.. but when you’re also buying coffee every morning and eating out almost every lunch, I have to wonder what’s going on in your brain. How can you not see that you’d have no problem paying rent if you just brought your own lunch and made your own coffee in the morning? Actually, depending on the coffee/lunch; bringing from home instead of buying (in my case) would pay for my rent in full each month.
    Vanessa recently posted…10 Ways to Streeeetch Your Food BudgetMy Profile

  42. I am so bad for this! I am very judgmental about how others spend their money, and because I am an accountant as well as a personal finance nerd, I get to see and hear a LOT about how other people spend their money. I tend to not judge out loud if I can help it and then vent to my spouse at a later time, so that people don’t hate me, but sometimes it can be hard to hold my tongue. My best friends are some of the spendiest people I know, and though I love them dearly, it can be hard to watch them make decisions that are bad for their financial situation. I also grew up watching my parents make poor spending decisions, so I learned early on that no one likes to hear that I think what they’re doing with their money is stupid. At least I found a partner who largely shares my views on money and who will pull me back when I get TOO judgmental!

  43. Seems most of us have a certain latent (or fire-breathing obvious) discomfort with how other people waste money. What helps me in this regard actually came from a different sphere of life: trust circles. Between you and God, you’re 100% honest and open, ’cause only He knows all the variables and factors, right? But between you and strangers? Probably more of a live-and-let-live approach.

    In between those two extremes are several more circles, and you decide who gets bucketed into each. So while you might call out a family member on a stupid purchase (and yes, some purchases are objectively stupid), you don’t do so with your neighbor that you only see occasionally. In taking this approach, I’ve found I say much less than I used to – which has preserved a fair number of friendships. 🙂

  44. I used to be super judgemental because I was the grouchiest cat around and because in many of those cases, other people’s crappy judgement ended up in front of me as a problem to solve. As I got older and slowly extricated myself from all but the most essential responsibilities, I was able to accept that it really isn’t my business, it’s also not my problem, and if I can step away and refuse to be affected, *mostly*, I don’t really care what anyone does with their money. Except if they’re whining to me while acting like a fool, or neglecting their dependents. Then the judgement guns are blazing – I will judge you up, down, and all around if your kids or pets are underfed, lacking medical attention, or otherwise doing with the basic necessities while you’re getting the latest tech, cars, and accessories. And there are people like that in my life.

    The biggest impact that judging has had is learning discernment. It’s important to me that we surround ourselves with people who can be trusted and will be as good for us to know as we are for them. The most superficial people I’ve ever met look like they’ve got it all together, because they buy that impression with designer clothes and expensive dining, and being around that for a short time helped me realize that you can buy shiny stuff on credit but it doesn’t come with wisdom. From being around them, I learned that in order to protect our assets, I have to make sure that nobody but the very trustworthiest know that we have any. Those same people who are spending like they’re incapable of seeing past their noses are judging us for being or “acting” poor (frugal = poor, in their world) and I’m A-OK with that because if they didn’t? They’d be making it their job to spend our money. Hands off!
    Revanche @ A Gai Shan Life recently posted…A quarterly look back: Q3 2016My Profile

  45. I admit I feel judgmental about money. I sometimes catch myself thinking about how people could spend money on that or this. Or they don’t really know what is going on because they aren’t part of the personal finance world or gotten their act together. However, I also feel judged. I feel judged when I reveal how much student loan debt I have. I am sure I would feel judged if I revealed how much in investments I have. I don’t want the comments like well you were just lucky or it must be nice or all of the other stuff. So part of it I don’t discuss our investments and/or I try much more to help others rather than judge them. Really get to what they want and see if I can be off assistance.