Hi there. Usually the Monday morning question is from Mrs. 1500, but today Mr. 1500 is asking the question, Would you buy Dead Harold’s house?
But first, let’s look back at last week’s answers to the question, Do you save or spend your coins? I used to save my coins, then take them into the bank (which tells you how long ago I was saving coins) for a surprise windfall. I say surprise, because I didn’t count them before I took them in.
Alicia from Financial Diffraction questioned the accuracy of the counting machines. I have wondered that, too. I think at one point, they would run the coins through, then take them out and run them again, just to double check. But that memory is pretty hazy, maybe I just made it up?
CJ from The Great Jolly Hoombah says taking the coins in to be counted is an event in the Hoombah house, and the money can only be spent on fun. I have heard of people who fund their vacations this way.
Ashley over at Saving Money in Your Twenties saves it in an actual pig, then rolls it and has it deposited directly into her savings account. Nice idea, too.
Most of the rest of you use credit cards for almost any transaction. Right now, we are spending wads of money at Home Depot, conveniently located just over the river, and racking up tons of points for our trip to Hawaii next winter. The plane trip should be free, thanks to our British Airways cards, and the hotel should be free, if the Hyatt doesn’t change their rewards programs. (Thanks, Richmond Savers, for the travel hacking tips!) I almost never have real cash in my wallet, and yesterday when I needed to buy a bottle of water, I had to scrounge around trying to find enough coins.
OK, now I turn you over to Mr. 1500, who wants to know: Would you buy Dead Harold’s house?
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Harold was my neighbor, but now he is dead. I want to buy his house. But there is a problem…
Let me fill you in first
Mrs. 1500 and I love the little street we live on. It’s out of the way and a dead end, so not much traffic. The kids can ride their bikes and we don’t have to worry. Also, we are close to the bike trail and open space where we take frequent walks.
We like our street so much that we’re considering buying other homes here. We’d fix-n-flip em’ or maybe rent them out.
My favorite house on our street is the last one on the left. It’s a little brick ranch with a walk-out basement that backs up to the open space. Harold lived there.
Being new neighbors and wanting to fit in, I had tried to talk to Harold a couple times. My friendly gestures were always met with a sneer and a grunt. Harold wasn’t social. Harold was an angry person. Fine, I figured that I’d just leave him alone.
Harold Moves On
Back in August on one of our walks, Mrs. 1500 observed that there were newspapers accumulating on Harold’s driveway. I dismissed it as Harold forgetting to cancel his paper while he was on vacation.
A couple weeks later, I was going for a walk myself when I noticed a strange van in front of Harold’s home. There were men in uniforms taking a bunch of garbage bags out of Harold’s home and loading them into the van. Hmmmm, what was going on? I thought they were asbestos abatement people. I was wrong.
A short time later, I was talking to a neighbor. Out of the blue, she goes, “Did you hear what happened to Harold?!?”
Me: Ummmm, no?
Neighbor: He’s dead. A friend discovered his body. He had apparently been dead for at least 10 days before they found him.
It all made sense now. The newspapers, the strange van being filled with garbage bags by men in Hazmat suits. But it got worse. There were rumors that Harold committed suicide*. Sigh.
Would you?
I still want to buy Harold’s house, but now, the house has a history/stigma. We like our own home well enough to stay there, so if we bought Harold’s, it would be a rental for at least a bit. Would people want to rent it though? I would be upfront with them about what happened. If I didn’t, the renters would find out from the neighbors. Also, I believe in honesty and transparency. I’d rather lay out all my of cards than be deceitful.
So I’m curious, do people care about this type of thing? I almost don’t. I don’t believe in ghosts and am not superstitious, but a lot of people are. Even though I’m not scared of bumps in the night, if I bought the home, I really wouldn’t want to know exactly where Harold passed on. So Reader, would you care? If so, why? If not, why not?
*All personal finance stuff aside, if Harold actually did end his own life, that is absolutely terrible. I did try to be his friend. Maybe I could have tried just a little harder though? The thought that goes through my mind is this: maybe if we had just brought him a plate of cookies or something, it would have made the difference. Who knows. Harold, I hope you have your peace.
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This happened to us. We sold our house to an older, single man, who moved in from a different town. He was not there very long, people didn’t know him. The neighbour, though a nice person, didn’t clue in to the same signs. His dog frantically scratching at the window, he wasn’t seen coming or going, his car always parked in the same spot, newspapers piling up! After awhile someone FINALLY checked on him, to find that he had died of natural causes, and had been there for quite sometime.
I decided to buy the house back from his daughter, who had inherited it but had no interest in it. I had sold it because of a poor financial situation since then had improved.
Though I am sorry for the man, living alone he had no one to check on him. I have not felt any bad energy at the house. If his spirit did return I doubt it would come there anyway, as I doubt the place meant anything to him. Many people have lived there, as it is 80 years old.
I would buy it. If I was that interested in the house beforehand and had the means, this tragedy wouldn’t change my mind. And I’m trying not to be crass. A quick sale may really help the surviving family or whoever is going to end up with the house.
Do you know for sure if the house will be put up for sale or not?
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As an aside, I think every old person living alone should get a newspaper subscription. Were it not for our 93 year old neighbor’s habit of picking up the paper diligently from her driveway everyday, we would not have known that anything was amiss. Instead, when she didn’t get the Sunday paper by mid-morning, the neighbors rallied around, called 911 and got her to the hospital where they found out she had a stroke. She’s still alive (this was a year ago), though now living in an assisted living facility. =( (sad, because she was a great neighbor!)
Anyhow… there’s a stigma, but I think people would still live there. Mr PoP’s family had access to a vacation house for years (it belonged to other relatives), and went every summer for decades knowing that another member of the family had killed herself inside in the 1970’s. Heck, our first vacation as a couple had Mr PoP and I staying there for a week. The only weird thing about the place was that the decor hadn’t been changed since the suicide so it was still VERY 1970’s in style.
Mrs PoP @ Planting Our Pennies recently posted…$150 In Write Offs, And Happier For It
Oh, I’d totally buy it, because I’m cheap. My husband would buy it because he’s cheap AND into all things macabre. He’d view that as a selling point and a fun way to freak out our future kids.
Your husband sounds hilarious! He must get into Halloween!
What a sad story! Poor Harold :(.
I might be a bit freaked to live in it, but I think most people would be okay. After all, chances are most older houses have seen a death or two (possibly even a suicide). I would buy it.
Erin @ My Alternate Life recently posted…Life Vs. Debt: How to Adjust Financial Goals
similar thing happened to the house directly across the street from me – the husband did shoot himself last year. The widow quickly sold it (for practically nothing – but it did need work). They apparently did NOT disclose that a death had occured because the people who bought it told ME that they thought their realtor told them the couple got divorced. I told him, no, that’s not what happened. He didn’t ask for more information and I would have told him the truth if they’d asked but since he didn’t, I didn’t volunteer it. I would want to know but I don’t think it would discourage me from owning or renting it but I grew up in a house next to a cemetary so I guess it’s not that big a deal to me. I remember having to move my birthday party indoors once because they were having a burial close to our yard that day. . .
Thanks for the perspective!
That is pretty crazy about growing up next to a cemetery. I’ll bet the Halloween parties were at your place!
The realtor was required by law to disclose the death. By not doing so, she left the case wide open for a lawsuit from the buyers.
And, if Harold was there for 10 days, I get copies of invoices and such that proved a bonded, licensed company dealing in death scene clean up actually did the cleaning up.
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Good suggestions, thank you!
Id by it. Its one youve coveted for a while and it may help the family out and too, if a house is old enough then surely its had someone die in it.
I wouldnt let that stop mye from being a renter in it or buying it.
I’d try to factor in a discount that might apply to account for the stigma attached (10%?) and see if the numbers still worked out as a rental. If you were going to do a flip though, the numbers might come out as a wash (discount for you buying might roughly be equal to that when you sold).
Personally, I wouldn’t be freaked out if I saw documentation that the cleaning was done by a certified/bonded company. But my wife, maybe not…
Done by Forty recently posted…Football, Losing, & Bad Behavior
Yeah, I’d expect to be able to get a good deal on it. It’s a delicate situation though. I don’t want to take advantage of people when they’re down either.
I may be wrong. This happened next door to us many years ago and we were told it was a state law that it had to be revealed to the next buyer. I happened to let it slip to the second buyer (husband) since it happened and they did not know….. He told his wife and she was kinda creeped out…. This was a gunshot during the day when my wife and child were home and his wife was away so I thought that was cowardly…..but who know what burdens people carry…… He was also the grouch of the neighborhood!
Can’t wait to hear about the Hawaii trip next year — glad I could help out!
I have to say, I would not buy or rent this house. Maybe I’m a little crazy, but it would just always be in the back of my mind that a dead body was lying there for 10 days.
There are plenty of other houses, so I’d let someone else have this one. If you could get some significant discount (20%+) then it would be hard to pass up as a flip, but exluding that, I would just keep looking if it were me.
Brad @ RichmondSavers.com recently posted…Southwest Airlines Visa New 50,000 Bonus Point Offer
That’s so sad to hear about Harold. Honestly, I think it would give me the heebie jeebies, since I already have an overactive imagination (though truth be told, I watch and read too much true crime stuff for my own good). I think if you disclose it openly with someone, though, then there’s less superstitious people than I who would go for renting it.
anna recently posted…Telling Your Partner About Your Debt
Thanks Anna! It is a little creep, I totally admit that. However, I think those thoughts would pass quickly.
I’m not superstitious, but I would say that if I was either renting or buying the house, and someone said that the previous owner killed himself, it would make me think twice. All things being equal, I’d buy a different house. Now that I say it out loud it sounds silly, and I guess this means I am superstitious. 🙂
Still, for a rental house, you can’t quite beat ‘right next door.’ For that reason alone its worth serious consideration.
Rory recently posted…Case Study: Retiring While Helping the Kids
#1- thanks for the link!
#2- Yikes. Not sure I’d be up for renting it. That’s just bad juju!
#3- You did a great thing by being friendly to him! You made an effort and treated him just like you would have treated anyone else. Don’t go back and analyze what you could have done differently.
Ashley @ Saving Money in your Twenties recently posted…I’m Quitting.
Thanks for the advice on #3. I always try to pay special attention to older folks who live on their own. How sad is it go come into life surrounded by love and family and then have to go out without anyone. Sigh…
You would be doing the estate a favor by buying it quickly. You also might get a favorable price considering the circumstances. Many houses have seen tragic circumstances. You could get the house cleansed by a spiritualist, or blessed by a minister. Do it.
That is what I think too, however it’s a fine line. I don’t want it to appear that I’m trying to take advantage of the situation. We shall see.
1500!!! Thanks for listing our previous comment! It was great fun. Ah, poor, poor Harold…. Even so, Harold’s story would have zero bearing on anything I did including purchasing his old house where he may have killed himself. Done by 40 makes and excellent point about cashing in on the superstitious types, however.
Have a spooky one!!!
cj recently posted…Knowing What to Accept in Your Relationship
Wow, what a terrible situation. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to buy it if I knew what you guys know. Someone may have died in my current home, but I don’t know about it so I’m okay with it. I don’t believe in ghosts and am not superstitious, but it’s just the fact that you know what happened in the home at some point. I’d probably stay away.
Jake @ Ca$h Funny recently posted…Why I am so Passionate about Personal Finance
That is a really sad story. I’m sure lots of older houses have seen their share of death, especially those in 55+ communities and people still buy. If you flip it and make it like-new I think a lot of the stigma will subside. It helps when houses look bright and airy. I don’t think it would really bother me, but having it thoroughly cleaned would help a lot.
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Yes,, thoroughly cleaned. No SMELLS!
I would probably buy it. If you think about most areas, there is enough history that something bad happened to somebody, somewhere close by. Another plus is it gives you a degree of control as to who your new neighbors would be. Which can be beneficial in many ways.
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Yeah, exactly. I always think its sad when a perfectly good structure is plowed over because something bad happened there. Move on.
If I wanted it I would buy it. I’m not superstitious. A friend of mine bought a house where a man had been murdered under somewhat scandalous circumstances (as if getting murdered isn’t bad enough). She got a good price on the house because of the stigma. It didn’t bother her, and it was a great house.
Rosemary recently posted…Remember Who’s Watching
Cool, I thought that more people would be concerned about the situation. Seems that most people are like you though and aren’t which is good to know.
Hi Mr. 1500. I am sorry about Harold. I know you tried to be nice to him. There are several grumpy old men where we take walks, and I hope they aren’t sad like him. There is little we can do when they’re not receptive to our hellos, though, and I hope you are not beating yourself up about it for one minute.
I would not let the fact that someone committed suicide prevent me from living in a house or apartment that I loved. I like Done by Forty’s suggestion about certified cleaning and wouldn’t mind having that out and up front when I was doing a walk through. The house does look lovely and your description of where it is located makes me want to buy it. I do like Colorado, and we are very reserved neighbors who would not jump on your gizzard!
Tammy R recently posted…Knowing What to Accept in Your Relationship
I’m not beating myself up over it, but the whole concept (growing old and lonely) depresses me. I know plenty of older folks whose kids pay them no attention (Harold had kids too). Old age and retirement is supposed to be happy, not depressing.
That is a great point, Mr. 1500. It is already hard enough to endure the “stuff” of aging. It is hard to know what the story is, but I am sorry he felt that taking his life was the best option.
Tammy R recently posted…Knowing What to Accept in Your Relationship
I would have no problem buying the home. I would, perhaps, replace all of the flooring. If you are renting the home it would save problems with prospective tenants if you were up front with them. The other neighbours will tell them anyway so head a problem off before it starts.
There is a court case in Toronto right now involving a couple who were not told the home they bought was a murder house. They want out of the deal because they feel it is too upsetting to live there.
I used to live in an old farm house. Of course people had died there because everyone just died at home 100 years ago.
Jane Savers @ Solving The Money Puzzle recently posted…Dumping Overpriced TD Waterhouse And Moving To Questrade
Hmmmm, you’re making me think of what is maybe the greater issue here. That is death in general. People are absolutely terrified of it and everything surrounding it. In America at least, we are obsessed with safety. Every car has to have 50 airbags and we bring our kids up in bubbles. I don’t like this attitude.
After reading all these comments, I did a bit of research. It appears that many states do not require any disclosure on a death in the home. California sellers must disclose any death that has happened within the past 3 years.
In Colorado, there was a case in 2010 where a couple entered a rent-to-own contract, and after moving in, discovered it was formerly rented by a serial killer who killed his victims in the second building on the property. They wanted out of the contract and the $10k they had spent on a new furnace and various other remedies they had made to the property. The seller offered $200,000 off the price of the $525,000 home. I would have to think about this one, as it was a fairly high-profile serial killer. I think it would be difficult to resell.
Harold’s house was very low profile. All the neighbors on the street know, but there really isn’t any sort of stigma on the house. I think the neighbors just feel bad that Harold died and lay there for so long. With all the flooding in our area, rentals are almost non-existant. I think we could rent it out easily.
My Stepmom had a similar problem with her rental apartment. The tenant (while she owned it) died of a drug overdose. This was basement apartment in our family home, so it was pretty traumatic for our family. She had someone with some experience in native traditions do a “cleansing” ceremony before renting out the apartment again. Even though I don’t believe in such things, it was a nice gesture, and I think contributed to making the apartment more rentable. I think it really only matters to the first person to live in a place after a death, so I would go for it – buy Harold’s home.
Thanks for the perspective. I like this and agree:
“I think it really only matters to the first person to live in a place after a death”
After a while, people will just cease to care or remember.