I had a friend that I’ll call “Jason.” Out of college, Jason hitched his boat to the right startup. He was an early employee and the company eventually become very successful and went public. Jason is probably the wealthiest person I’ve met. He’s younger than me but has a very healthy 8 figure net worth north.
I was talking to Jason a couple of years ago when he mentioned he doesn’t love his job. I asked him why he still works and his answer was something like this:
I want my child to see me working. I’m wondering how she’ll grow up if she sees me not having a job.
This topic also came up again on the blog in the comment section:
Do you ever worry about what the children might think when you aren’t working ?
No, not at all.
Time Is EVERYTHING
I’ll come right out and say it, I think that my old friend Jason is a little right, but mostly wrong. When I worked, my job was similar to Jason’s in that I sat behind a screen all day. So I ask you, which has more value:
Option #1: Having my children know that I’m doing something on the computer in the basement. Because I’m working, they aren’t allowed to interact with me. I have enough, so any additional dollars represent diminishing returns. More money is nothing to complain about, but it’s not improving my life either, therefore I shouldn’t trade my time for it.
Option #2: Spending time with my children every day. We go for hikes, play games, ride bikes, go swimming, practice Spanish, build stuff in the yard, move rocks (they would rather I had a job when it comes to this), and work in the garden.
A couple of weeks ago, the temperatures were going to be hot, so we jumped in the car and headed up to Rocky Mountain National Park. Here we are hiking to Estes Cone:
Jason has a bit of a point though. My kids need to know that my life didn’t just magically show up as-is. To that, my arguments are these:
They Know My Life Is Abnormal
Most of their friends have parents that both work. They see and know that I’m different. I don’t think they appreciate it as much as they should, but that’s what any old crotchety person (me) would say.
I Remind Them Daily
I tell my kids that I’m thankful that the formal work part of my life is done. I tell them how hard I had to work to get to this point. I show them pictures of the homes we remodeled and tell them about the long hours I spent in an office.
My Kids Know Our Net Worth, But…
I also tell my kids that mom and dad’s money is ours, not theirs. We will help, but they will have to make their own way.
They’re In School
Most of the year, my girls are in school full-time. If I chose to continue working, they wouldn’t see it anyway.
And I Still Work Very Hard
The Internet Retirement Police (IRP) like to call out us bloggers for continuing to work. Today, I’m happy to announce that I’ve created a new division of the internet police called the Internet Couch Police (ICP). The job of the ICP is to yell at anyone who retires only to sit around all day. Why? Work gives our life meaning and purpose. It keeps us mentally and physically healthy. I spend more hours working on stuff than I ever did at a job. I work on Spanish for at least two hours a day. I play the piano. I build stuff in the yard. I love the work I do now.
More To Life
This one is from Mr. Tako: Not working shows your kids there’s more to life than just a “career”. A job or series of jobs doesn’t define them as a person.
I Want To Inspire
I’ve saved the most important bit for last. I want my kids to see how I’ve designed my life, understand the work that went into it, see how good it is, and pursue the same. I hope that when they get their first job, they’ll think back to the time they spent with me and realize just how valuable the time was. I hope this inspires them to work hard and save their money so they have the same options I do.
Life is a journey and I have much learning to do. However, I’m fairly certain that my children are better off with me around than not.
More 1500 Days!!!
You can also find me (and the dinosaurs) at:
Mile High FI podcast:
Also here:
- EconoMe: Hey look, I’m speaking at EconoMe later this year!
- Facebook: Facebook group and page
- YouTube: My channel is mostly devoted to home improvement, but I have some other material coming up soon too.
- Instagram: Pretty pictures of dinosaurs, sunsets, and nail guns!
- Twitter: Spontaneous, often insane, ramblings
- Coworking space: On the surface, MMM HQ is a coworking space. Look a little deeper and you’ll see that we’re really building community. The members of MMM HQ are some of the finest people I know.
Other resources I like:
- Camp FIs are amazingly fun! I hope to attend Rocky Mountain and Joshua Tree this year. See you there?
- Need to learn how to invest? The Simple Path to Wealth is all you need.
- New to FIRE? Need some FIREy guidance? Check out Fiology and the accompanying workbook!
Join the 10s who have signed up already!
Subscribing will improve your life in incredible ways*.
*Only if your life is pretty bad to begin with.
Great post Carl as it hit home hard, and I completely agree with you. I was lucky to work at home through all of 2020 and the first half of this year, but my personal health declined and amount of hours at work increased significantly. During an argument, the Mrs. said something that’s been in my mind ever since, “Danny, I know that you’re here, but you’re not HERE”. This was my wake up call to make a change and flex my FI muscles by leaving my job for a 2nd time in two years. Nothing has been more valuable to me then spending time with the family, regaining my health back better than its been in a while, and helping the Personal Pan Pizza with his education as he is quickly growing 🙂
On a side note as I know its been a while…hope you and your family are doing great out in Longmont!
DtPG! How the hell are you? Someday, we’ll meet again in NYC. Good memories.
“Danny, I know that you’re here, but you’re not HERE”.
Damn, that’s brilliant. Very wise spouse you have!
Life is pretty good over here. Come out sometime!
Doing alright, thanks! Been peacefully enjoying the summer with the family while looking for the next thing.
We’ll definitely have to meet up again, NYC or otherwise.
Thanks, and we’re very lucky to have very wise spouses respectively 🙂
All great reasons Carl! They echo my own thoughts on the subject as well.
Can I add one more? Not working shows your kids there’s more to life than just a “career”. A job or series of jobs doesn’t define them as a person.
This is a hard one for most Americans, and who could possibly be a better teacher for this lesson than their own Dad?
Mr. Tako recently posted…July 2021 Dividend Income And Expenses
Good one! I added it to the post!
If I remember right your wife continues to work. That, I think, should also be part of the discussion. I wonder whether you’d get these same questions if you worked and your wife did not?
Yep, Mindy still works, but not full-time and with plenty of flexibility.
If I continued to work, I’d probably get a different question: “You’ve got enough! Why are you still working?” You can’t win! 🙂
Your friend Jason is horribly wrong. And likely you are too.
Jason’s life is changed because of his money and pretending to work to set an example isn’t going to work. Jason is rich. Jason’s kid is never going to have the life issues he had, she will have a completely different set of life issues. The child will never know poverty and never worry about employment. She won’t need to save for college, worry about the down payment on her first home or even a car payment. Jason’s daughter will have the opportunity to get the best education in the field she is most interested in. She will have the opportunity to live her passions and to find a path that is personally satisfying and perhaps good for the world. She will have to learn about managing wealth, avoiding bad wealth decisions (people and projects). She will have relationship issues to manage but they will be different than the typical kid coming from a middle class family.
Jason, by your description, has current wealth above $20 million. Wealth that will likely double every decade. Jason is wealthy and likely to become way more wealthy. It is extremely unlikely that he will deny a very small portion of his wealth to help his daughter with her life and her dreams. Jason needs to recognize her life will be different and to work on creating the values he believes his daughter will need in her world. Jason working for no real purpose doesn’t help his daughter or himself (it would be different if his work was his passion).
Your position is soon to be similar, another doubling of your net worth and your moving into territory where your retirement is safe and you will have extra resources (on a different scale than Jason) to help them in their lives. Your general approach as described here and across your blog does demonstrate the value of diengagement from work for money to work for ‘fun’.
But it isn’t too early to give the kids some special experiences that engage traits they have shown or those that you intuit as developmently important. And planning for the major events in the next 20 years of your kids lives and how you can help. The best you can do for your kids is the time when they are in their teens through their early thirties. This is the time your life experience, money and help will be most valuable. An inheritence when your kids are turning 60 is not the right plan
=====================
I’m 73 and retired in the FIRE sense for at least 20+ years. I grew up poor but achieved some wealth as I grew older. My kids (3 + 3 in laws) are in their 40s and are all wealthy. What my wife and I have done helped them achieve wealth (different with each). The arc of their life was better because of what we could do and vastly easier because of our safety net. I have 6 grand kids from 10 to 19 in age and they are so far inside the ‘bubble’ that they have no real concept on how most of America (let alone the world) lives. And rightly so. They have been prepared for their best lives and it looks nothing like mine or their parents. And if we get this right, the good trend should continue.
You will feel better acknowledging the reality of your and Jasons financial situation. And understanding the power you have to make a few lives that matter to you immeasurably better.
“This is the time your life experience, money and help will be most valuable. An inheritance when your kids are turning 60 is not the right plan,”
You and another commenter from a while ago have changed my mind on this. I still want my kids to have skin in the game in life, but I’ll help them out. I just haven’t told them yet. If they are done with college, I have an 8 figure net worth, and I’m confident in my kids’ ability to handle money, I may swoop in and buy them a house or at least give them a large chunk of change for one.
Great start. I hope you pay for college. My kids came out of college debt free, and 20+ years later I can say their character is fine. My eldest daughter’s husband did come out of school with significant debt, I can say that it had no effect / value on his maturity / character.
I’d also suggest that the teen years are important to help shape lives positively. One grandchild is at 13 a world class golfer and very advanced in schooling. Both have been an expensive process but very valuable in life experience and prep for her future. Another is a highly ranked tennis player in his home state but not a great student. The tennis is his key to a good school and for great socialization experiences for the future. And yes, expensive but in this case affordable. Across 6 grand kids I see disciplined kids with great life experiences, parents present in their lives and preparation for the life they really are going to have.
I hope you understand that an annual half percent or percent of your fortune spent appropriately on your kids will be transforming for them but immaterial for your retirement or wealth accumulation. After you have accumulated a few times the wealth you feel you need for your purposes, It is time and appropriate to see if using some of the wealth now for family (and perhaps other things) is a better strategy than letting the pile get ever larger.
Best to you and your family.
I think it was the Millionare Next Door, but I remember reading studies done and mentions of the dangers of buying your children houses for a lifestyle they are not ready for, and puts them into financial binds requiring further assistance from the bank of their parents. I do consider how my current lifestyle is way different from my childhood lifestyle and that my son will be shaped differently. I am not retired yet but am nearing FI, and these are still things that I don’t have an answer for yet. My only plan is to not just explain but also have him take part somehow in learning these lessons no one taught me. The only thing I learned was to save as a child, but was never given a reason what for.
“Jobs” define people so much because we want to have purpose.
I think you have the right idea, talking about money and keeping that conversation going. Just because you do not have a traditional 9-5 working life doesn’t mean you do not work hard for what you have. Kids do need to learn from their parents’ examples and showing them there is more to life than just their job is awesome. Plus learning good money habits early in life is a better example than being out of their lives at work 50% of the day.
I personally think it would be disheartening to my high schoolers if they had to trudge off to school every day while my wife and I stayed around the house all day. My son does not particularly like school, so I’m sure, after a bad day, he’d start to question why he’d forced to sit in a classroom instead of homeschool or have other options…
That said, I have seriously considered flipping houses with him once he graduates from HS. We are fat-FI and although I enjoy my job, I think it would be good for both of us to move on to the second act. My son is great at hands on work, not sitting in an office, and I’m great at sitting at an office but not hands-on… so this could really be a wild ride!
Flipping homes with your son sounds like an awesome adventure. Who knows, perhaps he could make a life out of it? You don’t have to flip many houses to get ahead quickly.
I’ve thought about this myself. I think a good thought experiment is to think about how you perceived your parents’ work careers when you were younger.
For me, my dad would be gone before I was awake, and come home around 6pm for dinner, sometimes a little pissed off if traffic was bad. To me, he had vanished to go to some nebulous cubicle job in the big city doing something that I really truly didn’t understand or care about. I didn’t derive any sense of “wow my dad’s at the office all day I’m so inspired.” As an adolescent and teenager, I couldn’t care less about his fancy-clothes 9-5 career. I was more interested in video games, girls, and hanging out with my friends. If anything, seeing him pick weeds up on lawn over the weekend instilled more of a work ethic in me.
So am I worried about my future children not witnessing me hunched over my work station at home for 8 hours a day, sending out emails, doing spreadsheets, and making phone calls? Not even the slightest bit.