Recently we were on Yahoo!. Not once, but twice. That’s Mrs. 1500 and I down there:
This was by far, the biggest exposure this little blog has ever had:
This led to:
- Me freaking out: Seeing your own face on the front page of a major website looking back at you is humbling and uncomfortable.
- The server freaking out: Bluehost was humbled as well. The blog went down in very short order. (This problem was fixed by sending Bluehost some more money.)
- Friends, family and co-workers freaking out: “DUDE, you’re on Yahoo! And it says you have $1,000,000??!!!” (Unlike Bluehost, no one has asked me to send them money.)
- Me freaking out some more: Mrs 1500 was like, “Calm down you nut!”
And:
- Lots of emails: Almost all were nice and polite. People just want to know how I’ve done this or that. And I love the skepticism. You should totally be skeptical of some anonymous dude on the internet.
Anyway, I have a long post coming up where I answer the questions, but I’d like to get one out of the way because I get it frequently. Also, it annoys me. Readers have phrased it many different ways. Here is a small sample:
What will you do if the stock market tanks after you retire?
What if you run out of money?
And Mr. MeanPants had this to say:
Dude, you don’t have enough. Your [sic] going to go broke before you know it. Bye bye house, hello cardboard box!
Mr. MeanPants’ vision of my future:
Risks, risks, risks
Is retiring early a risk? Of course it is! So is everything else:
- I fly on planes, even though they take nose-plants into the earth sometimes.
- I reproduced even though I may fail as a father. One of my girls may get knocked up by a loser at the age of 16 and end up working the ferris wheel at the carnival.
- I occasionally participate in dangerous activities like mountain biking, scampering up rocks and shopping at Walmart.
- And perhaps most terrifying… Wait for it… I am not above the occasional visit to Taco Bell. *shudders*
Why I won’t live in a cardboard box
The Mad Fientist recently wrote about how critical the first 10 years of retirement are to long term success. If you can make it through the first decade, you’ll never have to worry about money again*. But let’s say something does go horribly wrong in the first 10 years:
- The stock market drops 80%, three days after I quit.
- My Taco Bell Diarrhitto diet causes a heath condition that forces me to run up $500,000 in medical bills.
- My kids marry high school dropouts who steal all of my money and then escape to Mexico, never to be found again.
Here is my plan. Ready for it? Brace yourself:
I’ll go back to work.
Was that so difficult? I didn’t think so.
Now that we have that out of the way, let’s talk about another risk.
The risk that no one talks about
What if you work too long? What if you find yourself sitting around at 90 in your diaper with $10,000,000 in the bank? What would you do with it? I have no idea. If you’re a dude, maybe you can lure a gold-digger:
Having $10,000,000 isn’t a problem anyone would complain about, but it means that you spent more time than needed behind a desk. This has its own set of problems:
- Did your body or mind suffer as a result of job stress?
- Could your children have benefitted with more of your time? Never forget that kids want (and need) your time more than anything.
- Did you sell your dreams for those millions? If your brain still works when you’re 90, will you regret not writing that novel you had stored up in your head or traveling the planet?
If you absolutely love your job (you’d do it for free) or have no life outside of work, by all means, stay there.
However, if you have dreams that may not be compatible with working until 65 or even 55, perhaps you want to consider exiting early. The big risk of working longer than you have to is nothing less than trading vast amounts of precious time for a cube. On their deathbed, has anyone ever uttered these words?
I wish I spent more time in a cube.
Time is everything. I’d bet this dude would would trade his entire fortune** and even his arm candy to be 40 again:
*Are you still worried about going broke? Michael Kitces, who is freakin’ awesome, had this to say about the 4% Rule and safe withdrawal rates:
In fact, not only do 90%+ of retirees finish with more than their starting principal after 30 years by following the 4% rule (so even if you outlive the time horizon, there’s still funds left over), the “typical” retiree actually finishes with many multiples of their starting wealth with this spending approach! Over 2/3rds of the time the retiree finishes with more-than-double their initial principal left over. And the median wealth at the end of 30 years is almost 2.8X principal!
**Actually, I think this dude is dead, but you get the point.
Join the 10s who have signed up already!
Subscribing will improve your life in incredible ways*.
*Only if your life is pretty bad to begin with.
I can’t believe you’ve finally admitted your Taco Bell habit. Thanks for sharing. I’m sure that will help so many others out there.
I like the back up plan, go back to work there’s a novel idea. Increase income. Oh and if the stock market does tank we don’t panic and sell too, sounds like an straight forward plan. This story should be on the front page of Yahoo.
Brian @ Debt Discipline recently posted…Interview Series: Free to Pursue
First step is admitting you have a problem, right? I hope I do inspire others.
Mmmm, diarrhito!
Yeah it’s way too easy to be negative about anyone else’s dreams especially if you’re not happy with where you landed in life. Even I was a naysayer about certain people’s lifestyles, spending habits, and more, I just didn’t go on their blogs and leave comments along those lines, lol.
Whether we will run out of money, or our plans fail spectacularly, or we just get sick and die (a rather expensive death) I still would trade any of that free time I got for the latter option which would be – remain working. And I really like my job, company, and people I work with (currently, it could all change tomorrow)
I guess that’s what it comes down to for us. Sure our plans may fail, sure it is a bit scary leaving at peak career earnings, but to have more time with the kids is priceless. Actually, it’s worth about $1.4 million give or take a few hundred thousand, but you get the point. No amount of money is going to be worth it to not spend more time with them.
Mr. SSC recently posted…Suicide Never Goes Away
“No amount of money is going to be worth it to not spend more time with them.”
No way I can improve on that?
Congrats on the Yahoo feature! Glad a lot of new eyes (and hopefully open minds) are finding their way to your story.
Michael Kitces’s research on the 4% rule is eye opening. You are absolutely right that people are too focused on the tiny percentage chance of money running out rather than the much bigger chance that you end up with more money than you can possibly spend.
Matt @ Optimize Your Life recently posted…The Downside of Keeping Your Options Open
Yeah, I love Kitces’ stuff! People tend to focus on the worst case scenarios. There is another blogger who shall remain nameless, but likes to troll me. And that is usually his argument: “What if this or that happens?” or “What if you’re in this or that situation??” Sure, bad shit can happen to anyone, but most likely won’t.
I know it can be a tough one to wrap your head around, but going back to work is a viable option! Shocker.
And I would agree that the risk of having to re-enter the workforce is worth taking. Spend more time in a cube on the front end, or 10 years later…not a big deal really. Granted, you may not re-enter at the same seniority level, role, real wage, etc, but even if it is a part-time gig for $20-30K it will help get you through a year or two and rebuild that cushion.
Thanks for explaining such a challenging concept to Mr. Meanpants and many other Yahoo visitors…
The Green Swan recently posted…Is the Enmity Justified for Payday Lending
“Granted, you may not re-enter at the same seniority level, role, real wage, etc, but even if it is a part-time gig for $20-30K it will help get you through a year or two and rebuild that cushion.”
Yeah, the key for me is frugality. If you can like on $40,000/year, driving for Uber or renting out a room via Airbnb could easily bring your 4% down to 3%, which drastically increases you success rate.
One thing I’ve learned watching the staying at home moms and dads among my friends is that people wanting to return to work after an absence have a way of finding new opportunities. For some, that means picking up contract or freelance gigs. For others, it was starting their own business. A couple of people I knew even changed careers altogether.
I think the problem is people see all the risks but not the opportunities.
Congrats on the massive exposure! I’m looking forward to your post addressing the questions.
I think the key question which you raise and many people do not – what is the risk of NOT retiring early? That risk could be huge.
And, going back to work? No problem and it’s an easy fix. There will always be haters!
Thanks! That exposure was cool, but I’m glad it’s over…
Do you mean to tell me that in all the years you’ve planned this early retirement, and the several years you’ve been writing about it, you’ve actually contemplated the possibility that not everything will go precisely according to plan? Most software engineer types I know are far more reckless, jumping into the deep end without checking to see if there’s water in it, or if it’s frozen or not.
I doubt you’ll need to enact Plan B, or C or Z, but it’s good to know you’ve got them.
Best,
-PoF
p.s. When your daughters are older, and they read this, they’re not going to be happy with you!
Nah, they won’t care.
They be too busy hanging out on a Mexican beach downing umbrella drinks with their dropout boyfriends and otherwise burning thru the 1500 fortune. 😉
!!!!!
Ha ha, you know me well! I have backup plans for my backup plans.
“p.s. When your daughters are older, and they read this, they’re not going to be happy with you!”
They are already not happy with me, so nothing new there!
Unfortunately, all of the protestations in the world will not answer the trolling crowd. But I fully admit I feed the financial trolls even though I shouldn’t. I don’t know what it is, but it puts a burr in my bonnet when others criticize people who go outside the norm and succeed. I think I spent all of monday going back and forth on the CNBC site debating people about your success (not that you need a defense). It just is unbelievable to me about how many will crap on others. I need to stop feeding the trolls.
Jason recently posted…Feeding the Financial Trolls
Oh man, thanks for the defense. I should put you on my payroll!
While I appreciate it, I’m not sure if the exercise is worthwhile. People who want to hate will just move on to the next reason if you disprove them. It’s kind of like some conspiracy theorists I know:
Them: Mercury in vaccines causes autism.
Me: It never did and besides, the mercury has been removed.
Them: It hasn’t been removed, the medicine companies are lying.
Me: Well, here are three independent labs that all conclusively show the mercury has been removed.
Them: Then something else in the vaccines cause autism.
And that’s why its a wonderful thing that you and follow FI bloggers are here to shake up the status quo!
Thanks Dee! My reach is small compared to folks like MMM, but I tell myself that my silliness resonates with some people!
Lots of wise words here, Mr 1500. Kind of needed some reassurance, thanks for this!
P.s. Kind of cool that the server actually crashed, getting 59000+ visits on one day is pretty impressive for an FI blog 😉
Team CF recently posted…August 2016 Cheesy Index (and Box 3 Tax considerations)
Yeah, 59,000 will probably be a record I’ll never top. I’m not sure I want to though. When it gets that big, everything that goes with it consumes you.
I think I can plan for your retirement better than you can. Here is what I propose:
Buy a really expensive car. Then a boat. When you can’t afford the payments, just refinance them into your house to clear up your short term debt.
Now that you have no short term debt, buy another nice car.
Celebrate the raise at work by getting your 16 year old pregnant runaway kid at the Ferris wheel a new car to lure her home.
Spend $50,000 on more college to get a 2% bump in pay at work.
Spend that 2% pay bump on vacation.
At the age of 45 when you realize you forgot to invest, sell your house at a loss to downsize, and instead of paying off your cars just buy new cars (but cheaper than the ones you traded in) to save some money on the monthly payment.
Take that $150/month in savings, and invest at least a solid half of it in stocks.
Go on finance.yahoo.com and make troll of all those losers who think they can retire early. Obviously it’s impossible. Clearly those people online are stupid.
Eric Bowlin recently posted…Renting Vs Buying a House – Which is Better?
Ha ha, nice one Eric! See you next week!
So I’m curious if most of your friends and casual acquaintances knew about the blog before this point. I told about 2 people, and zero people from my family. But of course, if in 3 years, my cute face is on Yahoo, they might figure it out. Is it weird? Random troll strangers aside, are your real life people supportive?
No one knew about it except for 3 close family members. Out of those 3, two of them never looked at it after we told them.
It isn’t weird at all like I thought it would. What I have overwhelmingly found is that most people just don’t care.
“What I have overwhelmingly found is that most people just don’t care.” Oh my goodness. I’m glad it not just me!
It’s my hope Yahoo realized the first headline was clickbait-ish and did the second article as an apology. Nonetheless, it’s an awesome feat and I’m glad everyone was mostly nice! (you didn’t read the comments, did you??)
Gwen @ Fiery Millennials recently posted…Lessons from Til Debt Do Us Part
Wow, that is perceptive. I had never thought of it that way, but maybe you’re on to something?
When I saw that photo on Yahoo, I thought “what the hell did his sister think??? And his parents???” Please please please post about any conversations with family after they read the article!!!
If they know, they haven’t mentioned it to me. Money was a taboo subject in my household, so they may know, but just don’t want me to know that they know. I don’t know…
looks like shite may have hit the fan… I have a bro in law that the same and sometimes i feel some tough love might help. But its most likely to not…
Your cardboard box future got me humming “Livin in a Box” all morning. By none other than the 80’s British band “Livin in a Box” from the album “Livin in a Box”. Yep, they were about as creative as the Chickens of Doom that periodically sent their very best wishes your way. The song was catchy though….
Seriously, what IF everything turned out to be bloody marvelous? A crazy thought, I know.
Oh well….let’s raise a glass to those Chickens of Doom who predict stock market declines, bonds going to hell in a handbasket and real estate being swallowed up by lava from the bowels of the earth.
As the jolly melody from REM goes: “It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine”.
Mr. PIE recently posted…Slicing the Family PIE Investment Portfolio
Chickens of Doom! I love this. Maybe I’ll reserve chickensofdoom.com. Just kidding. Maybe…
Congrats on the internet fame Mr. 1500!
Was that 59k page views or 59k people? That’s a pretty huge day either way.
Personally I hated my “cube life”. Even if the stock market crashes in the next few years I’ll try to find some way to avoid it.
But you know what….if the market has a serious crash *everyone with a retirement account* is pretty screwed. The difference is you’ll have had your “early retirement” years. The cube droids won’t have those years, and yet you’ll both end up the the same place.
That doesn’t sound that bad.
59,000 pageviews, but it was probably close to 59,000 people since most of them were unique visitors.
And crashes happen. My strategy to deal with them will be an active withdrawal plan. If markets are flying high, I’ll sell stocks. If the markets crash, I’ll live off my 2+ year cash pile. And if I get my rental property, that will pretty much support me, so nothing else will matter.
No big deal.
You probably should never answer a 3-sentence Internet comment which begins with “dude,” and contains multiple grammar errors. If I speak about my early retirement plans, I often get the same argument as you do–“You won’t have enough, you’ll go broken, then what?” My answer is, “Gee, I hadn’t really thought of that! I must’ve run all the numbers wrong for the past 5 years. All the books, spreadsheets, and saving were a complete waste of time. I’ll stay on at work instead. Thanks for saving me–you’re smart!”
Hilarious and true! It cracks me up how people that have given the situation 1 minute of thought somehow think that they’ve outsmarted you.
You’re famous! Love the writing, it only makes sense it gets picked up.
Hey Todd! Thanks! And my next project involves dads too…
diarrhito, no thank you. 🙂
I think there are too many people that are skeptical. Retire early doesn’t mean you are not working in some sort of function still. Also, retire early doesn’t mean you can’t go back to work if all the worse cases happen. It’s really more dangerous to work and live pay cheque to pay cheque IMO.
Unfortunately, I think Diarrhitos are only available in the US…
Out of this entire article, here’s my take away:
I would have never thought to choose the refrigerator cardboard box, this guy is a genius. Always thinking big, nice work on your future luxury accommodations, I’ll probably be stuck with an air conditioning box.
Steven recently posted…Fantasy Football and Your Money
Is there space on Lower Wacker?
Did you hear that the one woman who got so sick from Chipotle she racked up at least $50,000 in medical debt asked for free burritos as part of her settlement. The love of Americanized-Mexican food runs long and deep.
I love Taco Bell too. I LOVE their breakfast, even though it’s so terrible. Eat it while you can and ride your bike lots to run it off.
I always thought the biggest problem with you not being anonymous was your family find out about your writings on your finances. But to be fair, it’s best to get that stuff out in the open. My mom ended up letting sharing her true feelings about her sister (whom she loaned $900 and never got paid back) plus her sister’s daughter (whom she loaned $2,500 that she never got back) and while she made up with the sister after the emotional discussion, her niece (a total money grifter who also “borrowed” $1,000 off my mom’s brother too) wouldn’t talk to her. But we’re kind of glad now that the niece knows how little my mom respects her as the niece won’t ask her again for money (and neither will her sister)!
Oh my, the Taco Bell breakfast is awesome! I love those circular crunchwrap things with eggs and bacon. I feel a little bad for making fun of them.
Yikes, money will break families apart. I don’t think that I’d ever do a loan. I may give someone money in an extreme circumstance, but having a loan between friends or family is a recipe for bad things.
My family has always been really secretive about money, but I agree with you, openness is the way to go. When my girls are mature enough, they will know our net worth. Hopefully, it will show them that just because you have a pile of dollars doesn’t mean that you have to spend it on silly shit.
Really enjoyed this post!
I loved when you said “Here is my plan. Ready for it? Brace yourself:
I’ll go back to work.”
Because honestly what’s the worst that can happen if you pursue FI or your passions for a few years? There’s even more reason to take time off if you can make sacrifices. I have no car, kids, mortgage, and have stayed out of debt other than a student loan. So even if I did go broke, I’d require less money than your typical family anyways. Time will always been more valuable than money. And congrats on being featured by Yahoo!
Graham @ Reverse The Crush recently posted…Reasons to Gush About Blogging
Thanks Graham for the kind comments!
And yeah, time is everything. The sad fact is that most people don’t realize or appreciate it until theirs is almost gone.
I think that is Anna Nicole Smith! That dude was born in 1905. Nuts.
What I’ve come to find out is people don’t like DIFFERENT. No matter what it entails. People have their idea of “normal” and if you don’t fit it… you’re f’in nuts in their mind.
Fervent Finance recently posted…Everyday I’m (Not) Hustlin’
Yeah, well said! None of the great people how have lived are normal. Normal sucks. Edison was a workaholic. Tesla was eccentric. Elon Musk has grapefruit sized balls of steel.
I looks like you can work for Taco Bell as their director of marketing! Crud Light and a full-sized refrigerator box…hot damn, it don’t get no better than that. Boy, I loved those flow charts; you’re so screwed you loser! I laughed aloud four times as I read this post. Good stuff, keep’em coming.
Ed
Ed Mills recently posted…Net Worth Update: September of 2016
Oh man, thanks Ed, much appreciated! 🙂
I’m sorry we can’t enjoy a Crud Lite at FinCon this year, but hopefully our paths cross in 2017.
I’ve always wondered on the merits of early retirement. I’ve asked Michael at financially alert this and would like to get your perspective on it too if that’s possible! 🙂
I’ve always had the thought that yes, one could go back to work again after early retirement but would it be that feasible? When the employer finds out that you’ve spent a good number of years in retirement, wouldn’t they be skeptical of hiring the early retiree because they would be afraid of not sticking with the company long-term? I would like to hear your thoughts on it, as I’m nowhere close to being FIRE but would like to be one day!
While I’m almost positive that they were not alluding to early retirement,* I really like the thought of Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here” as a bit of an ER allegory in part:
Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk-on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?
I’ll take the walk-on part any day over that damned cage. I’ll go back behind bars if I absolutely have to, but the breeze is lovely where I’m sitting and I anticipate I’ll be just fine out here unless global scale insanity ensues. 😉
* Yes, I know what the song really is about. I’m being silly dammit.
Ha ha, silliness is good. Great tune in any case.
News flash: That sense of “do I have enough saved to last forever?” never goes away completely. Even being a retired single guy with many multiples of your target it still crosses my mind, and that’s okay since it is healthy for your finances I believe to be a tiny bit nervous. It is sort of how our species came to be after all. If you simple stuck your head into the margarita and never bothered to manage your stash or adapt to whatever the new situation that arose, then you could get yourself in trouble. When it does cross my mind I simply remind myself that at no time in the history of the U.S. stock market has a 2% withdrawn rate ever failed, hell a 3% has not failed, 4% has but also crazy low odds of this happening. If it does it means something really, really bad has taken place (nukes, asteroid extinction event coming, zombies, etc.) and nobody’s plan or amount of money will have been a safe plan. In the mean time go out and enjoy freaking life, you will be a hell of a lot happier you spent your healthy happy years doing what you love vs. sitting in the cubicle.
Wise words grbkeb.
Another way that I look at my money is if it earned 0 for the next 20 years, it would still sustain me and then social security would kick in. Like you, I’ll probably always fret over it a little, but my level of anxiety is very low now.
The comments are pure gold! Besides all the naysayers and the usual crap about how no one can do this, how you’re not really retired, how the numbers don’t add up, how you’ll be back at work and in your parents’ basement, how the news outlets are liars and thieves… there was this gem that caught my attention:
Njae2000 • 8 days ago
The first thing that they should have done is take a DNA test to find out if the are related, because they look like brother and sister!
These are great!
I’ve never heard anyone mention that we look related though.
This post cracked me up, Mr. 1500. I have never seen ‘misery loves company’ been proved out so well among those commenters whenever they hear a real FIRE story. It seems like they will say anything to justify their own inability to achieve FI. If someone else has achieved it, it must be because they had some unfair advantage. So, they should be investigated like a criminal along every dimension rather than be appreciated or worse, emulated. Your attitude of taking all the sh** in stride is impressive.
I’d really like to see a post summary of your the reactions you got from people you know?
Or would that be a bit weird/out of order now that they know about the blog and may be reading it?! I would just like to hear about how people have taken it (I know you’ve written some posts about your family, did any of them see the yahoo front page!?). I am guessing some point in a few years down the road I might tell people about my blog and would be good to anticipate the sorts of reactions that might get.
Also really looking forward to the Q&A post you have brewing.
Cheers!
Good for you. What an honor to have been picked up by Yahoo. Many years running and never a sniff for me 🙁
Money Beagle recently posted…Now I Can Love Over 100 Libraries!
I’m going to adopt an unpopular position: We need more guys like Mr. Mean Pants.
Why?
Because he brings out gems like this post. I’m going to start send you anonymous hate e-mail from random gmail accounts. OK, I’m kidding.
It’s amazing that most skeptics are so afraid of what failures an early retiree might face, yet many of them aren’t concerned in the least bit about their full-blown emergency stemming from lack of retirement savings. It’s as if they are somehow better off than you despite having almost nothing. I’ve stopped trying to understand those people…
Wowza, congrats on the Yahoo! feature! That’s quite an accomplishment!
I hate anonymous gross people on the Internet. Don’t let them get to you. 🙂 I’ve experienced some in-person confrontations where people were actually ANGRY about my FIRE plans. This kind of stuff really riles people up because a) they don’t understand it and b) think you clearly must be lying and c) they think you are actually a trust fund baby.
Sigh. I do wish our state had personal finance classes as part of its public school curriculum. I think it would alleviate a lot of these misunderstandings.
Mrs. Picky Pincher recently posted…Frugal Fail: Replacing My Lipstick
I’ve just barely started blogging and a FB friend already posted a snarky article on my feed about killing the smalls joys of life like not eating out for lunch. I think people usually respond negatively when they perceive some truth but feel too challenged to change.
CoupleofCents recently posted…Why We’ve Never Had Credit Card Debt
For those whose physical health and mental capacity holds out, have kept their skills and contact network fresh and current, and assuming the job market cooperates, going back to work is a fine Plan B. What’s Plan B for those who aren’t so fortunate but have taken ‘expert’ advice to stay heavily invested in stocks, withdraw 4%, then 2008-09 recurs, perhaps on steroids?
I couldn’t agree more that the risks of dying with loads of money in the bank–having worked too much perhaps, neglecting family, friends, and self along the way–are largely ignored. I fear wasting a significant chunk of the active, healthy part of my life far more than I fear running out of money when my life is reduced to adult diapers, prescription bottles, and walking aids.
Kurt recently posted…Cut Your Business’ Costs
Probably the thing that should be most worrisome is widespread dishonesty among banks or investment firms, a la Wells Fargo scandal recently.
Congrats 1500 on the massive coverage, sincerely happy for you! So, you follow it up with: Taco Bell DIARRHITO!! Come on, man, you’re a ROCKSTAR now (congrats on getting picked by Rockstar Finance today!!), and you blow it all by the nightmare scenario of DIARRHITO forcing you BACK TO WORK! You’re spot on – don’t work a day more than you have to. I’ll be out by 55. Sure, I’d be richer if I worked til 60, but I might also be dead!
If think you going to loose your family because of the market crash and loosing your home….you have got yourself a wrong family! Time to change it.
Financial Independence recently posted…April 2020 update ($489,265 +$47,946 or +%10.9)