Hi there, Mrs. 1500 today, asking about your banking habits. Do you use a large, nation-wide chain bank, or do you use a local bank? And what are your reasons for choosing?
But first, let’s talk about your finance book recommendations from last week.
Normally, I would open up my computer at the end of the day and respond to all my comments, but I didn’t really know what to say last week. Thanks, 30 times, seemed silly.
So thank you all who commented.
Reader Lucas had a great point, “…jumping right to a strict “budget” book would not be the most effective means of helping her change her thinking and motivations (which then would leave to effective budgeting, etc. . ). I would say you are looking for something that helps her understand her values, how much of what she spends doesn’t help her achieve those and how to be aware of your priorities in life (and how you need to consciously pursue them, not just assume you will achieve everything without effort/sacrifice). …”
He then goes on to suggest “Your Money or Your Life” by Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez. I have to admit to not having read this book yet, but I think I am going to make a library list and put this at the top. The title suggests it would be a great read.
He also suggests “Smart Couples Finish Rich” – by David Bach and couldn’t remember if she was married. She isn’t married, and is currently in a relationship with an incredible loser, so I am not going to share this title with her, but I will share it with you.
He rounds up his suggestions with “The Millionaire Next Door” by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko. Mr. 1500 owns this book, and has read it and gives it to all couples for a wedding present. Sounds like we need to send this to his sister, too. Thanks for taking the time to answer, Lucas.
Allie from Allie’s Everyday Adventures, Chris from Flipping a Dollar (which is about taking garage sale items and reselling online for a profit – I can’t wait to read this whole site!) Brian from Debt Discipline and Bryan from Income Surfer recommend Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover.
Reader Hannah also casts a vote for Total Money Makeover, as well as Your Money or Your Life. Another idea is You Need A Budget. I don’t know much about this, but Mr. 1500 has recommended I look into it.
She finishes her suggestions with a possible session with a money coach. I Think this is the way the sister would choose to go, because someone else is doing the work for her. I would happily help her out if she would make the changes, but she would have to make an enormous effort before I would drop any serious cash.
Mrs. PoP from Planting your Pennies throws another vote in for “The Millionaire Next Door” and added “Nice Girls Don’t Get Rich” by Lois P. Frankel.
Reader Cadence recommends “All the Money in the World” by Laura Vanderkam. She says it takes a softer tone, less accusing of past mistakes and more encouraging for future success. This could be a very good book for my sister in law. Thanks!
Reader Jenni suggests “All Your Worth: The Ultimate Lifetime Money Plan” by Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Warren Tyagi. And then seconds and thirds Dave Ramsey and Your Money or Your Life.
My Dividend Pipeline suggests “The Richest Man in Babylon” by George S. Clason. Which was then seconded and thirded by Reader Andrew and Reader B-Ride. And then Reader Alaska49 provided us with a link to a free copy from Mr. Money Mustache. Thanks, Alaska!
Adam over at AdamChudy suggested “Millennial Money” by Patrick O’Shaughnessy, which gives a great overview of compound interest. He says, “It’s a good starting place for any under 30 person…” This would be a great suggestion to Mr. 1500’s youngest sister, but the sister who is asking is pushing 40 pretty hard. Compound interest can still work in your favor, but not nearly so much as at age 30. (Oh, we could be batrillionaires if I had paid attention to this principal. I started following BRKA before there was a BRKB, back when it was only $29K a share. Sigh…)
Even Steven suggests “You’re So Money” by Farnoosh Torabi or “I Will Teach You to Be Rich” by Rahmit Sethi.
Tawcan offers up “Raising Financial Confident Kids” by Mary Hunt, and gives another vote for Your Money or Your Life.
Reader Patrik says “Only one book is needed: – the Complete Tight Wad Gazette compilation” which is by Amy Dacyczyn.
Reader Sue likes J.D. Roth’s Your Money – The Missing Manual because “it’s a bit of a comeback story – he admits to all his mistakes and shows/tells how he turned things around.”
Reader Girish suggested The Coffee House Investor by Bill Schultheis. He was an investment advisor who took his 13 years of experience and turned it into a book for people who are overwhelmed by the stock market.
Reader Wade suggested “The Mindful Investor” by Maria Gonzalez and Graham Byron.
Reader Zugzug casts another vote for The Millionaire Next Door.
Reader Nate has a whole list: Two Income Trap – Warren, Rich Dad, Poor Dad – Kiyosaki, Millionaire Next Door – Stanley, A Random Walk Down Wall Street – Malkiel, The Signal and the Noise – Silver, Black Swan – Taleb, Early Retirement Extreme – Fisker. Thanks Nate!
Reader Heather M likes “Millionaire Teacher” by Andrew Hallam, because he does a great job of explaining in non-technical terms.
And last is MP of Mustachian Post who throws another vote for Your Money or Your Life and A Random Walk Down Wall Street.
And now on to today’s question about banking.
Mr. 1500’s work situation has changed ever so slightly. He still works for the same place, doing the exact same thing, but now, instead of being an employee, he has to go corp-to-corp, which means he has to form his own corporation. It works out to our advantage, but there are some things we need to get into place. One of the many tasks is to open a business banking account so we can get paid.
We use a large, nationwide chain bank for our personal banking. We both happened to have an account at the same regional bank when it got swallowed up by first one national bank then another. We stay not because of stellar customer service, but rather because of their nationwide network of ATMs and because we have already set up automatic bill pay for most of our bills. It would be a huge hassle to change.
But for business banking, we had a choice. So I visited the local branch of the giant chain that we currently bank with, as well as the closest branch of our local credit union. Both offer business accounts, and that is pretty much where the similarities end.
The local credit union charges for absolutely everything. 150 transactions are included in their non-waivable monthly fee. But if you bring in 10 checks, then need cash back, that is 11 transactions. WTF?!? (Remember that here on our family-friendly [most of the time] blog WTF means What The Fee?) The large chain bank, where we have been banking since the early 90’s, charges $10 per month, but that fee is waived if you have a $1,500 balance. Kind of a no brainer. Since we already bank there, we know their online system fairly well.
I see local banks everywhere. I want to give my business to the mom-and-pops of the banking world, but when it is going to cost me so much more to use them, it doesn’t seem worth it to me.
So, do you bank local? What benefits do you see? Any local bankers out there? I would LOVE to hear from you. Maybe I am just missing something…
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Local credit union, the Vanguard of banking.
Thanks, Wayne. The Vanguard of Banking. I like that…
We use a major Canadian bank for our personal accounts. When I was in business, I used a primarily online bank account with a not as big in Canada bank that had free business banking. The fees seemed rediculous to me at the usual banks because as a one lady business I didn’t need all the features I’d be paying for.
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That is where the big bank got me. They offer what they call a limited service, but it is everything I need. No fees, not very much service. Mr. 1500 will be getting paid once a month. One check per month deposit. We charge everything business related on the business card, so not even one check per month because the big bank issues the credit card and we can pay online. Since we will be keeping the $1,500 (I love that number!) balance, we will have zero fees. Kind of tough to beat.
We use PNC. Free ATM withdrawals (plus WaWas have PNC ATMs anywho). We don’t have to pay for the account because of direct deposits greater than 1k per month. They also credit something like $10 at ATMs at the end of the month.
I love their app for scanning/depositing checks and I can pay bills through their system. They will either send a check out for me (for free – can even be a check to another person) or send an ACH one if they have the company in their system (like our mortgage company).
For example, our mortgage has two names in their system – Regular payments or Principal payments. Very easy for me to pick the right one depending on if I’m just doing my normal one or if I’m doing my extra payments!
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Thanks, Chris. I like less fees…
I’ve used a little of each. I started at a national bank, then moved to a local bank, then a credit union. Always chasing better rates and low international fees. Right now, I’m with Capital One 360 supplemented with a national bank. I prefer to have everything at Capital One, but for cash or small things, it’s easier to go through the national bank.
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Thanks, Kate. CapitalOne is online only, right? It is hard to give up the convenience of the big bank chain that has about 10 locations in my little town alone. I don’t like to carry a lot of cash with me, but I have to have some… I like being able to go and not pay a fee at the ATM.
I use a local Colorado cu (ENT) and have yet to see any fees. Not sure what requirements they had when I started (can’t remember) cause I haven’t looked. I did a refi on a vehicle for an excellent rate and last week I got an $88 dividend deposited in my account. Not bad 🙂
I keep hearing such great things about credit unions. I was really surprised when my guy at the credit union told me that 11 checks to deposit was going to be 11 transactions. That seems more like what the big banks do, manufacture fees just to gouge you. But they didn’t have any fees for my little piddly needs, so long as I keep $1,500 in the account.
We use a major US bank, an online bank for savings (CapitalOne 360), and then I have an account at my company credit union – which charges us no fees (at least for the services we use). Joining the credit union was more because they have great home and car loan rates, and they have a branch in my building…so can’t beat convenience. It works for us. I haven’t paid a fee for banking in at least the last 10 years.
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Another person singing the praises of the credit union. Maybe I just went to the wrong one.
What does it mean to join the credit union? No one asked me to join anything…
We use a local credit union, no real fees, plenty of ATMs, free coin counting, etc. Since we are only using it for our personal banking it works well for us. I’m not sure what their business account details are.
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Coin Counting!!! I went into the local branch of my big nationwide chain, and was told they didn’t have the machine anymore. When I asked them where the nearest coin counter branch was, they didn’t know. I called the national “customer service” number, and THEY didn’t know, either. Now, for all my coin-counting needs, I have to take it to Coinstar at the grocery store. At least I can choose the Amazon gift card option to not lose 10% to the Coinstar thieves.
That right there makes the credit union look appealing. I am going to see if my credit union has a counter… Thanks!
We each have our own credit unions. Free electronic banking. Free ATM including regional Wawa’s. Interest rates almost always beat for profit banks.
I think I may have just gone to the wrong credit union. I am going to search out others in my area.
We’re a Bank of America household. Mainly out of inertia (it’s where I’ve banked since high school) and the ATM network.
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Ditto, except the name of the bank.
We use a major national bank, it also helps that I work for said major national bank. So not only do we get an upgraded account, I’m very familiar with the ins and outs of the accounts themselves more than most people.
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Nice. I can see why you went with the national bank!
Credit unions. Their network is amazing. I can go down to a network credit union and withdrawal cash, make deposits, cash checks, get cashier’s checks etc with no cost to me. And they are everywhere! Way better than the big “stage coach” bank I had banked at for over 10 years and then boned me.
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Yeah, I don’t bank with the Stage Coach. Not that mine isn’t eager to Chase me away… (Ha! I’m so clever…)
All the positive notes about credit unions has me thinking either I misunderstood or that one just stinks.
We have accounts at three local banks and a credit union. We probably should consolidate a couple. One of our banks is sort of regional with branches in towns within about a 100 mile radius. The other two are totally local as is the credit union associated with my husband’s former employer.
As for the books, I never really caught on to Your Money or Your Life. I loved the Millionaire Next Door which I think should be required reading in high school. A couple of books I didn’t like at all were written by a couple named Economides (spelling correct, I think). The savings they cite in their books are unbelievable and the prices they claim to pay haven’t been seen since the 60s. They border on the realm of extreme cheapskates, IMHO.
I know those people! I read their how to shop at the grocery store book. No idea the actual title. Yes, you are right, their prices are pretty ridiculous. Don’t they claim to feed a family of 6 for something like $12 a month? Not happening. But I do like some of their suggestions. After I read that grocery shopping book, I stopped going to the grocery store every day to get one thing, which turned into 12 things.
After a lot of resistance, I finally made the decision to move away from chase after being with them for years (previously Washington Mutual). As you mentioned in your post, they have branches and ATM’s everywhere and as long as we maintained a average daily balance of at least $15,000 we didn’t get charged for anything.
However their rates they pay as well as offer are not that competitive when you compare them to a credit union. A few years back we had joined Navy Federal Credit Union through their friends and family program. My brother had been in the Navy and was a member. We joined specifically to get a car loan which they were offering 1.79% interest. And then recently we refinanced our mortgage through them into a 5/5 ARM at 3.675% interest to get rid of our PMI to save almost $400/month. On top of this they charged no origination fee. The only thing we had to pay for was the $375 appraisal fee and about $600 for title insurance. The escrow was free because my mother in-law owns an escrow company.
After two great experiences, it got me curious to check out regular banking at Navy Federal. Come to find out their savings account interest rate was 30X more than chase. They pay even more on a checking account (0.45% vs. chase at 0.01%) at 45X the chase rate. I had also been interested in looking into some short term CD’s. At Chase a 12-month CD would get you a measly 0.02%. However, at Navy Federal you could get 3% for 12-months for a max of $3,000 per person.
I decided right then and there that I was going to follow through with the hassle of changing financial institutions. Not only are the rates highly competitive, the customer service has been great. They are not as prevalent with respect to branch offices and ATM’s, but in all honesty we probably go to the ATM maybe 4-6 times a year. They are close to the house. And in the event that there is not a convenient ATM around they refund up to $10/month in transaction fees, which will more that cover my wife and I. Almost anything these days can be paid for with a credit card. Who carry’s cash anymore?
Also they offer free checks and there is no fee for the account as long as you maintain a balance above $1,500. Otherwise its $10/month. Oh and I forgot to mention one thing, you get the 0.45% on the checking as long as you maintain a balance of $25,000 or more.
I only recently made the change. It took me about two weeks to transfer everything over and get all my automated payments set up again. And then close out the old Chase accounts. I am pretty sure I will be here for a long time to come.
Cheers!
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Oh, forgot one thing. You need to have a friend or family member that can refer you to become a member.
Gen Y Finance Guy recently posted…Financial Stats for Gross Income and Net Worth Now Have a Dedicated Page
Well, aren’t YOU my friend?
Mrs. 1500,
If you decide that Navy Federal is the right bank for you, I would be more than happy to be your referral. Just email me privately and I will help you out.
Cheers!
Gen Y Finance Guy recently posted…Financial Stats for Gross Income and Net Worth Now Have a Dedicated Page
Thanks a lot Gen Y! I’m going to look into it this week!
I use a local credit union. No fees @ most credit union ATM’s across the country and they are very easy to work with and quick to help.
I bought my first home this year and it was very quick to close and had slightly better costs than the other places I checked.
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We tried to get a mortgage with this credit union, and their closing costs were obscene. But they had the best rates on HELOCs. Go figure…
I use a local credit union. After using BoA throughout college I was so done with the endless fees, the bad customer service and the general hassle that came with it. I used TD Banknorth when growing up in New England and had no complaints. (But I was only in high school and not really into financial know-how yet, so it may be problematic now.) My credit union has been fantastic- on it when I’ve had fraudulent charges, helpful with any questions and prompt with all transactions.
I have heard nothing but bad things about BoA. They hold our mortgage, and that is all they will get out of us. We didn’t choose them, we used a broker. We even tried to refi with them once, and they said they couldn’t do it. We refi’d somewhere else, and they ended up buying our new mortgage. Hmmm.
We use a large local credit union, who up until recently didn’t charge any fees for checking. However, starting Feb 1 they are going to start charging for checking unless you meet certain requirements.
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Looks like you might be in the market for a new bank. Lots of people recommend credit unions here. Good luck!
That’s interesting that your local credit union charges everything. We bank with the local credit union as well as the national wide bank (TD). The local credit union has no fee accounts that are great for us where as TD requires a minimum deposit to waive the fees.
In your case if you can deposit the minimum amount in the bank, maybe go with the national wide bank to avoid transaction fees.
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And when the guy told me about it, he almost seemed to revel in the absurdity of calling 11 checks 11 different transactions. I left feeling the opposite of warm and fuzzy about credit unions. It was my first experience with them.
We use Wells Fargo and a credit union. No fees from either and the rates we can get are better for some things at the CU and some at Wells Fargo.
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We use Wells Fargo. I got my first account there in college because my parents had banked there for something like their whole marriage. We have also found it insanely convenient because two of our mortgages were also held by Wells Fargo, despite using a broker both times.
We have both sought out separate business accounts for small side hustles… For both of those we ended up at smaller, regional banks since they offered free business accounts. We moved a relatively small amount of money through each, so fees were a major consideration.
All things considered, I think mobile deposit is the most valuable service to me. We don’t use cash enough to worry about the ATM network. But having moved to an area with no Wells Fargo branches, we have relied on mobile deposit quite a bit.
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Wow, I didn’t think there was an area with no WF branches… We use mobile deposit. Every once in a while the check is too large to be deposited that way (what a horrible problem to have, right?) so having a local branch is good.
We use Charles Schwab – no fees and all ATM fees are refunded. I’d be open to using a local bank if the lack of fees was the same, and if it wasn’t such a pain to change direct deposits and bill pay over to the new bank.
I think the banks figured out a long time ago that switching all your automatic bill payments would be a giant hassle, and only the most angry of customer would attempt it.
USAA!
Isn’t that military only?
They used to be military only. Now I think only some of their insurance products are mil/veteran only.
Straight from their website: “Today, USAA membership is open to U.S. military service members, veterans with an honorable discharge, and their eligible family members. We also offer some products to individuals with no military affiliation.”
I have two banks right now: one is a now not so local credit union that I have had an account with since I was a little kid (my parents did, and still do their banking there which is why I still have an account) and then Bank of the West which is a chain out here.
With BotW, I think they did have some fee, but it was waived by setting up an automatic savings deposit from my checking into a savings account each month. Easy enough, encourages saving, and if I ever need the money I can immediately transfer it back online so there is no hassle. Other chain banks I looked into before opening this account said that they would charge a fee but that it was waived for various things like higher amounts or if I have so much in automatic deposits or automatic bill pay per month. BotW has a pretty easy to use online system and they are pretty much everywhere around the places where I live so it is pretty easy to get to.
The credit union that I use at home is fine for a credit union. I can’t speak about fees with this one since it has been ages since I opened the account, but I don’t get charged anything now anyways. Other credit unions I have looked at for personal accounts did not charge a fee. The main complaint that causes me a lot of trouble with my current credit union is that while their online system allows you to pay bills and transfer money between internal accounts, there is no way to transfer funds to other financial institutions!! Since my BotW account is the main one I use, it ends up being a pain in the butt when I get a deposit in the credit union account as I end up going to down to the BotW branch and writing a check to myself to withdraw from my other account.
So that would be my main word of warning, check what they offer on their online services. Since the credit unions might not have put the resources into developing their online banking sites, you might end up with a bank that doesn’t do everything that the larger chain sites will do.
Good point. I would be frustrated to not be able to transfer between institutions. That kind of seems the point for online banking…
I use a local credit union and like that their mission is to serve their customers (members) rather than profit from them like a bank. I probably wouldn’t pay extra for those warm feelings, but my credit union doesn’t charge fees for any of the services I use.
So many people responded with praise for their credit union. I am going to check and see if there is another one near me.
I bank with TD and I love everything about them. Lots of branches and ATMs, their amazing hours, connected investment account, flexible customer service(such as waiving fees). Although I need minimum balance to waive monthly fees, I think the minimum balance as emergency fund anyways. It works for me!
Cheers,
BeSmartRich
We bank at a local bank back home, but we had to open up an account with a national bank because we winter in the SE (live in the mid-west). Really didn’t have much of a choice to have access to $ while away, but so far have been satisfied with the national bank (US Bank).
You just reminded me of my parents banking. They sold their house, moved most of their stuff into a storage unit, bought an RV and now travel around the US building churches. They have several bank accounts, including one up in Alaska because they couldn’t find another one to do business with while they were up there. Weird!
If you’re in Colorado I highly recommend 1st Bank of Colorado for your personal and business banking needs. I no longer live in Colorado and still keep an account with them because they are so good to their customers. They have branches throughout the state and good online banking.
Our family uses both. As a member of the military, we tend to move around a lot, so USAA was a no brainer when I signed on the dotted line for Uncle Sam. However, I have found that it is a hassle to do some things online/over the phone. When we bought our last house, I shopped for mortgages and found the best rate and terms at one of the local banks. Naturally, we got our mortgage through them, but I thought that it would be a great idea to have a checking account there too, so I asked about their WTFs. It turns out that they waive their fees for keeping a minimum balance or setting up direct deposit. Now I have a local bank where I can deposit cash (I HATE carrying cash) or get certified checks/money orders if needed for something.
Local Credit Union for the last two years. Checking, savings, HELOC. Easy to deal with. No sneaky fees. Not lining the pockets of bankers (as much). I’d never go back to a big national bank.
I use a large regional bank for both my checking and savings account (Santander the artist formerly know as Sovereign Bank). They are huge bank in Europe but they are confined to the Northeast here in the States. I’ve never had any issues with them and it feels like a local bank as many of the people have been working there for years and they recognize you.
I believe they are also allowed to run their own promotions locally, as I was able to lock into a savings account offering 1.5% interest as long as I set up an automatic transfer each month. I keep my emergency fund in that account and it only takes a few clicks to reverse that transaction.
The only negative is that if you travel outside of the Northeast, you do have to pay the ATM fees. They have a bunch of their own ATMs in Mexico and Puerto Rico that can be used completely free if I was planning a trip there!
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We used Firstbank Of Northern Colorado for local stuff and CapitalOne 360 for all our major liquid assets. Firstbank is useful for depositing cash and transactions that a remote setup isn’t good at. 360 (formerly ING) only pays 0.2% interest(usually better than the competition), but they tie into Sharebuilder which is a plus. The also have good (first world) support and no fees.
360 also has a good number of ATMs.
Mr. /Mrs. 1500, if you want to borrow “Your Money or Your Life”, we have a copy. It was our Aha! book.
Thanks BNC!
Oooh, “Your Money or Your Life!” I’ll take you up on that if I haven’t read it by the time I see you again. I’m interested in hearing when you read it and how it changed you. You both are smart cookies, so I’m surprised you needed and changing!
And we have a 360/ShareBuilder account too. I like the 360 ATM network as well.
I moved all my money to a regional credit union soon after I moved to the Albany NY area. I started out at KeyBank and received horrible, incompetent customer service at one branch after another until I could pull my money out 6 months later. I’ve sworn off the big banks ever since. Our credit union fees are much lower than any bank, from ATM fees to overdrafts to everything else. But we might just have an especially good credit union.
I have heard that credit unions are for people, and banks are for businesses, so maybe there’s some truth in that.
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I use an online bank, in large part because I’ve been moving around a lot in the last several years, and anticipate the same for the next several. An online bank (Ally, for me) means I don’t have to worry about branches or ATMs nearby where I live or work next. I’ve also gotten great customer service from them!
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We use a credit union and also a larger bank that has no local branch (USAA). If I had to set up a business account I would definitely be shopping around to find a bank that wants to work with business owners, especially one that has low or no fees.
I left the big bank when they fee’d me off for the last time! My opinion is that when you have multiple accounts and various types of accounts (checking, money market, mortgage, etc), your loyalty should be recognized and certain small fees should be waived.
We have better experience banking with all the large banks (Bank of America, Citibank, Chase). We started with Citibank for their much higher rates a long long time ago, when their money market rates were about 5%. At Citibank, when you reach a certain level, your interest rates go up and you get special rewards for banking with them. We mostly bank with Bank of America now, because of their commission free trading/75% more cash back on their credit card.
We recently tried a smaller chain, which was convenient as they reside inside a grocery store, and they had higher rates for their savings account. Unfortunately, when I was trying to withdraw money, they told me they needed a week’s notice, or would charge me $10 for a bank check. That made my liquid money not very liquid. A decision has been made – we will no longer bank with them.
Also, with the big banks, most of their fees are waived if you have direct deposit or maintain a certain balance, which is fairly easy for us. We just prefer large banks based on all the rewards and bonuses they give you. Plus, they’re too big to fail.
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We use PNC Bank – a relatively large “Regional” bank. For personal use, we pay zero fees – and even get reimbursed for some fees others charge (I can use *any* ATM in the world, and the fee it charged is deposited into my account the next day). I can walk into the bank and get a cashier’s check for “free” (I still have to pay the amount of the check, but no fee for the check. And at least in Virginia, I could walk into any branch and get a notarization for free – that apparently doesn’t happen in PA, but I haven’t been able to get that part figured out.
Business accounts are a different animal though – they get charged left and right for everything – at most banks/credit unions. Guess how all those consumer “free checking” is supported? (BTW, all those fees are deductible as business expenses, but you still have to incur them in the first place 🙁 )
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