Warren Buffett’s annual meeting is famous for the question and answer session. Anyone can get up and ask a question. When I went to the meeting last May, someone near me who looked to be about 30 asked one. While I don’t remember what the question was, Warren quipped that ‘he’d trade all of his wealth in a second to be the age as the man asking the question.’
Lately, I’ve been lamenting my existence. I had last Friday off; woo! I spent it redoing the plumbing in my crawlspace; not woo. Things went well, but not perfect. The water heater had an irregular fitting which cost me at least 2 hours. The project spilled over into Saturday.
At the same time, I’m in a race with the carpenters who are working on our addition. They are nailing the wood together and I’m doing everything else. As they lay the floor joists, I’m hanging can lights between them. Before they can put the 4×8 OSB sheets down for the floors, I have to get all of the plumbing in. It’s all moving very fast and really sucks at times:
- Daughter D: Dad, can we do a puzzle!?!
- Me: I’m sorry D, but I have to get the plumbing done so we can flush the toilet again.
- Daughter D: OK, maybe later daddy.
A tiny little part of me dies with every conversation like that. Instead of spending time my children, I’m fighting with plastic pipes in the dirty crawlspace or figuring out electrical circuits. Sigh…
In the long run though, I’m actually buying more time. The $3,000+ that I’m saving not paying a plumber will buy me lots and lots of time down the road, so it’s a compromise that I’m willing to make.
However, I’m astounded when people willingly trade their time for material excess. A generation ago, many more families got by on single incomes. Now, we live in a society where many choose to trade time for material stuff. We have bigger homes and fancier cars, but we have to work at a job with long hours or have two incomes to support it all. This message hit home in an article I recently came across:
So what we have is a situation in which American families have more stuff, but they have managed to afford that stuff only by being two-income families, with ever less family time…
The times have changed. My grandparents had one car and a 1,200 square foot home. My grandfather was the sole breadwinner most of the time. My parents’ house was a bit closer to 1,500 square feet and we always had two cars. My mom started working when my sister and I were teenagers. The current generation has taken it up a notch. Many of us like in 3,000 or 4,000 square foot homes (before we traded down, we were guilty of it too). Most seem to have their own car and some of us even have convertibles or motorcycles for weekend jaunts. Some of us have vacation homes. We’re trading a lot of our time to pay for all of this stuff. Helluva price to pay if you ask me.
What are we doing less of? I’d say that its all of the important stuff; spending time with our children, nurturing relationships with friends and family, reading, exploring, thinking, growing, learning, being curious, going for walks, looking up at the clouds, helping others; on and on.
In 10 or 20 years, the fancy car that you worked hard to pay for is going to be worth nothing. It will have been recycled into another car or sitting in a junkyard. However, your children will still be around. Never forget that the person they will become is the direct result of the person you were and the time you gave them when they were young.
So tell me, do you still want that new car?
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Really insightful post! Going from full time student to a part time worker has left me a lot of time to do activities that I really enjoy. Whether it be reading or taking long walks, they all fulfill me in a way that expands my mind. I’ve met people who really enjoy what they do, and do it all the time for the fun of it. If we went back to a traditional breadwinner and homemaker lifestyle, there might be a lot of people who would feel ‘bored’ and ‘unfulfilled’.
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“If we went back to a traditional breadwinner and homemaker lifestyle, there might be a lot of people who would feel ‘bored’ and ‘unfulfilled’.”
I think you hit the nail on the head and I can relate. Building things, whether it be software or a new kitchen, makes me happy. I could never be full-time a stay at home dad.
Your part-time compromise is perfect and something I may try for in the next year or so.
I was thinking the same thing as Amanda. My grandmother and my mother didn’t have the educational opportunities and career opportunities I have. If I’m ever blessed with children, I don’t think I could give up work entirely. It has nothing to do with buying “stuff” — I enjoy my work and I’m used to being financially self-reliant. I’m not sure how I would feel about someone else being the breadwinner.
Good for you and I like the attitude. Like I said in another comment, work can be incredibly gratifying. It’s all about finding a good balance for you.
When I quit my job after my oldest was born, I got a lot of “it must be nice” comments from people who preferred to own a Saab, go on expensive vacations, wear the best clothes, get their hair highlighted, etc. etc. It is very nice being at home with my kids, but not in the way they think–I don’t just sit at home and have all the same stuff that they do. Some of them do know that, but figure I don’t “need” it like they do. Whatever.
I will say that even as a full-time parent, I have the same concerns about whether I’m spending enough time on my kids, whether I’m soaking it all in enough, and giving them the kind of childhood I wanted to. Once you’re in the trenches of parenting, there never seems to be enough time to focus on being the parent you wanted to be. I’m reminded regularly, though, that just being there means an awful lot to them.
Jen @ Jen Spends recently posted…Organization vs. Imagination
“I’m reminded regularly, though, that just being there means an awful lot to them.”
YES! When Mrs. 1500 was pregnant with our first child, my boss at the time gave me probably the best child rearing advice I’ve ever received: “When it comes down to it, children don’t want a bunch of material stuff. They really want you.”
This is completely true and something I think about every day. I can see it in the way my older child reacts when I sit down and play with blocks with her.
At least you know there’s a payoff of time coming down the road with this DIY remodel. With a car, or anything else that hurts the bottom line regularly, you’ve got to ask that question: is it worth the trade of time with the family? I love travel and all but we do spend quite a bit on it every year: I wonder if that fits in the car category or not. It’s a bit of a grey area, as a vacation is still time with my wife. But those trips, since they’re regular and pricey, probably have as much impact on the length of my working career as constantly leasing a car would.
Thanks for linking to that article: very interesting stuff, when you see how other countries dealt with changing demographics in the workplace.
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I’m with you in the vacation category. I love vacations too, but I don’t think they’re in the car category if you do them right. Staying at the 4 Seasons is not doing it right. Camping or spending good time outdoors is doing it right.
I think that part of the shift to two-income families lies in the fact that more women realizing that a career can be very fulfilling. Still today, not that many men want to take on domestic duties, so neither wants to stay home. So it ends up being about more than just buying stuff, its also about quality of life. Lets face it, if being a stay at home parent were super funfor everyone, more men would be doing it.
So you are saying that if I gave the average family an infinite amount of money, almost all of them would continue working? Sure, some would, but I think the vast majority would quit and spend more time with their family. If it were only about finding work “fulfilling” then we wouldn’t have these statistics about so many people across the country disliking their jobs.
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That’s a constructive question. I am a fundraiser for a top university and I have seen both sides. I work with very wealthy people and have noticed that some do retire completely and just travel or work on hobbies. But some also continue to work – they seem to love the thrill of success. Look at Warren Buffett and Bill Gates as examples. I think that the opportunities we have and choice of career probably has a lot to do with it.
My point, though, was that the are other factors in the rise of two income households. Acquisition of stuff explains some of it, But not all. And we shouldn’t discount the change in attitudes that gives more choice in the matter.
Oops. Last sentence should be “Acquisition of stuff explains some of it, but not all. And we shouldn’t discount the change in attitudes that gives women more choice in the matter.
I like the Gates and Buffett analogy. I am the same way. No matter how much money I have, I’ll still do some kind of work. I just enjoy building stuff and writing code. However, it doesn’t need to consume 50 or even 30 hours of my week. Perhaps I’d work on code or home projects 4 hours per day while the children are in school.
That’s exactly the sort of thing I am aiming for Mr 1500! Fellow coder signing in 🙂
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I looked for a spouse who wanted to work and well, I’m the sole bread winner. I’ve encouraged my wife to go college even though she is 35 and given her every opportunity to work.
I think it is a gross over-generalization to say there are dual income households because a career is so fulfilling. I think it is because of what is laid out by Mr. 1500, the quest for the accumulation of stuff. I could go into my theory about the mortality gap of men and women closing because more women are in the workforce and feeling the everyday stress of 30+ year career [….]
I’m not saying women shouldn’t work, in fact I encourage my wife to do it quite often. I’m just saying it is an over-generalization to think women are doing it solely because it is “fulfilling.”
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I’m not saying all women who work do it for the fulfillment, but I believe a significant number do so.
I personally believe we as a society have told women that they are not successful unless they are out in the workforce.
We have devalued the most important use of time that there is – enriching the next generation.
Who cares about TPS reports?
And yes a man is equally capable of staying home with the children. But if Mama is staying home for a few months after childbirth and plans to nurse the child(ren) until they are a year old or so it just seems like a more natural transition to have her stay home.
But to each their own.
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“I personally believe we as a society have told women that they are not successful unless they are out in the workforce.”
This!
I agree!
Though I am in the workforce and love my career — but society repeatedly tells me I’m a failure and “incomplete” because I don’t have a husband and kids.
I think for men, society’s definition of success is more career-related. For women, you have to have a high-earning career and be the perfect wife and mother as well.
Agree that women have it harder than men. Men are expected to work. If you’re a female with a job, some will look down at you for not spending more time with the children. If you’re a stay at home mom, others will look down at you for not working.
Work can be incredibly fulfilling. I love writing code and am thankful every day that someone gives me money to do something that I’d do in my free time for no money at all.
However, I know many who are stuck with jobs they hate to fund new cars every 3 years. Someone I know just spent a good part of his time working every day of the week (80 hours/week minimum) for months on end. He got a huge promotion, but didn’t have a lot of time with his children during that time. With his new promotion, I’ll bet he’s working long hours now as well.
With all of that said, I like the direction Europe has gone (check out the article I linked to in the post). They have moved to a dual earner system as well, but the hours worked per person have decreased. I realized that some of this is due to the culture and rules of those countries, but it wouldn’t be impossible to do here in the states. For example, as Amanda pointed out above, one spouse could go part time.
I think the “personal fulfillment” idea is often just the other side of the same coin.
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We are a two income household and I love it. Yes, we have more money, but as a woman I do find my career fulfilling. Staying at home for me would not be fulfilling. However, we have talked about when we eventually have kids, we don’t want to be consumed by our jobs to the point our kids miss out on attention. We, also, don’t agree with the current education system so there have been talks of homeschooling in some shape or form. My hubby says he wants to be involved in our kids lives, so we need to have flexibility when that phase in our lives hit, if it does.
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It sounds like you’re on the right track. I find work really fulfilling too. Perhaps you can compromise by working part time once you have children?
I’m trying to justify a lot of this right now. Time vs. stuff. Right now, we are in need of a new mattress, but a new mattress is an air plane ticket or several dinners out at a new restaurant. We never have a huge want for things though. We don’t need the fanciest car, the biggest house, or an entire room full of clothing.
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A mattress is a need, not a want so I won’t dock you any point there! 🙂
You sound similar to me. I’ll pay for experiences (Yosemite!); not so much for cars or fancy clothes.
Maybe I’m a PF anomaly, but I’d hire the plumber. $3,000 ($4,400 at 4% for 10 years) will get you 3-4 months of freedom, or maybe a smidge more. And yeah, your kids will be there then. But they won’t be the kids they are right now. I remember the times my dad played catch with me, but I remember even more the times he was too tired from work and cutting the grass and fixing the sink to come play with me. Besides, twelve years from now are you going to be sitting at your oldest’s high school graduation thinking, “Wow, I’m sure glad I did that plumbing?” Or will you be thinking, “Gee, I wish I could play with my little girl again.” Maybe it’s just a delay of gratification thing (I would like a pretzel…), but I’d rather have them right now than delay playing for plumbing.
This thought crossed my mind too as I read the post. I guess there needs to be a balance really, between the time you have now to pursue what you want and the time you want in the future.
I do think the 1500s have a really good balance, but it will always be a tradeoff.
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Hmmmmm, where do I start? I’ll start with the plumbing. In my worst case scenario, it will take me 30 hours to complete the job. That is $100/hour. I don’t make anything close to that in my real job, so this is a big number for me.
The same big numbers apply to electrical and tile work. I know how to do both of those, so will do it myself. By the time the project is done, I’ll have saved at least $20,000, but probably quite a bit more. I’ll have a about 100 to 200 hours into the work.
Now, I do pay people to do some stuff. I’m paying carpenters almost $20,000 to build a second story over part of the home. I’ll also pay to roof the home and hang/finish the drywall. For all those tasks, labor is much cheaper and it just isn’t worth my time.
I also try to minimize downtime with the children in a couple of different ways:
1) I try to get them involved: Who wants to be my plumbing assistant today! Admittedly, this doesn’t work well. They get bored after a short time and move on.
2) I try to do my work when they’re busy with other people or activities: Hey Auntie, want to come over and take the girls to the park for a while?
However, I admit that it does take time away from them. However, this is a compromise I’m will to accept. All of this work will be behind me in a couple short months and life will be back to normal.
And let’s not forget the hassle of finding a good person to hire!
My dad built the first house we lived in himself, and I shadowed him much of the time. I was 4. I wonder if that’s part of the reason I went into architecture? You’re definitely right that it’s a good thing for kids (yes, even girls) to be involved.
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Holy cow; this is the best reason of all and I completely overlooked it. Maybe because it’s so obvious to me? Finding good workers is impossible. I’ve seen the work that some licensed people do and know that I can do better. Not like I’m some super handyman; they just don’t care like I do.
I stayed at home raising my daughter as much as I possibly could. Now that she is almost grown, I wouldn’t have traded that time for anything else -but being a parent was the best job I ever had! I worked at a daycare with children who , even though it was a great daycare, hated being there all day every day. They would act like miserable little s**t’s ( and I love kids) because they were in an institutional setting, not at home with their loved ones, where they really wanted to be! It made me so sad to see that, and of course I wasn’t allowed to say this to the parents! All our choices are trade-offs-so it’s good to do some soul searching and make sure we are making the best choices we can.
Wow, I really love hearing your perspective! Thank you so much for sharing.
I see how much better my children act when I spend time with them. It puts them in a great mood for the rest of the day.
Mr PoP definitely will still want his NSX, I am sure of it. But I imagine it’s different when the being who needs you the most is a cat instead of a child – though last night Kitty PoP had to bring me a toy when he wanted to play rather than me instigating it and I definitely felt a little bad about that. Can’t imagine how it would feel coming from a person.
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Ha, I still want an NSX too. I may have one, but not until I’ve saved up all of the money I’ll ever need!
Thanks so much for writing this post 1500. I don’t think I can be reminded enough to slow down and be thankful for all that I have in my life right now.
Thanks for the kind comment.
I have to remind myself all the time to slow down. My neighbor was just pointing this out to the Mrs. the other day “doesn’t he ever slow down?” Soooooooo hard…
Money and stuff is not everything. Sometimes stuff can’t bring you happiness. The time you spend with your loved ones are the most precious moments.
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Yes, I’m convinced that the best moments in life involve time with loved ones. Stuff is just a substitute for those lacking good relationships.
I feel like MrsPop. We feel guilty now traveling and leaving our dogs at the kennel…a great one at that, but still not the same. I can only imagine if it were little people. If it makes you feel any better, my dad didn’t spend a lot of time with us (different generation..makes me feel old). Looking back, l wouldn’t have had it any other way. There is so much coddling and hand holding of kids that it seems we’ve become a nation of namby pambys! You seem to have a good balance. They will be fine, and so will you.
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“There is so much coddling and hand holding of kids that it seems we’ve become a nation of namby pambys!”
Ha yes, this is a thought I often have. A lot of parents do too much sheltering. You children are your children, not your little friends. It’s OK if they learn tough lessons every once in a while too. Life isn’t a bowl of chocolate mint ice cream.
Good post and cute kids to the 1500s. Life has been interesting for the Grump’s the past year. My wife took the first 6 months off to care for baby grump. I was let go and have stayed home with him for the past 6 months. Both of us are very career oriented and felt staying home would be a huge drag both in the fulfillment and financial way. I couldn’t have been more wrong. I think people assume the sports car or vacation home is better because we’re told that’s what you need to be successful. At the end of day your title is Dad or Mom, little Timmy could care less about the guest house or Lexus. I think staying at home, for most parents, is their “green eggs and ham”. Looks and sounds awful but you don’t know since you haven’t tried it.
I would gladly trade the sports car to spend more time with the baby. In a way I already have.
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Beautifully written post (and always love pictures with your girls – they seem like fun and wonderful little ladies!). I agree that time spent with loved ones trumps all material goods!
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I was the last born into a large family (10 kids). My father was a lot older than my mom and he was the principle bread winner in the family. My mom had a part time job as a grocery clerk until the place she worked closed then she stopped working. That happened when I was around 2 or 3. Not long after that my father also stopped working, work place injury and he was in his 50s by that time. So I basically had both my parents around all the time. We didn’t have a lot, but my parents were able to put a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs, and food on the table (but you had to hurry with all those mouths). I wouldn’t have traded that time I had with them for anything. My mother is still around and this past Christmas we sat and talked about the things we remembered while I was growing up and not once did either of us mention stuff, it was always the various times we spent together. The funny thing is how in most families kids just can’t wait for the school year to end, well in my family it was my parents who couldn’t wait because the end of the school year was the start of the camping season. The province I grew up in had discounts and even free stays for seniors so my father use to get free camping and we use to go for almost the whole summer traveling from camp ground to camp ground. I don’t see this with families anymore, so much rush rush rush to get no where. I know as a kid I really appreciated the time, and I still tell my mother this every time I talk with her.
As a woman, I am a strong believer in being employed, even when I do have kids. I believe in working in a career I enjoy that also gives me the time to spend with loved ones. I don’t however, believe in the importance of that career having to pay me oodles to buy more stuff.
I currently work at a private high school in the fundraising department and like all non-profit work, I don’t make much money. But I get lots of holidays off work, ample vacation time, and great benefits which will be important to me when my husband and I decide to have kids.
I think having two working parents is a good thing. I think it’s being able to share in the responsibilities of the home life and having enough time with loved ones is what matters when one has a career. No high dollar paycheck is worth working over 60 hours a week (and personally, my 40 hour work week is plenty for me!)
If my husband and I had more money saved up for early retirement so that we both could quit working, then I would consider leaving the workforce. But as someone who grew up with a working mom, I definitely want to show to my future girls that women can have great careers just like their daddies. 🙂
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Great post! Being a new father with a 6 month old, I can definitely empathize. Time is so much more valuable than material possessions. It pains me that during the week, I drop him off at the crack of dawn and pick him up at night. By that time, it’s almost bedtime. We only truly have quality time during the weekends. Time flies and I don’t want to miss a thing.
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Time sure does fly. Our oldest is about to turn7. It seems only last week when I was in the delivery room. Sigh. Make every moment count!
I grew up in the time there were still 1 income families and life seemed a lot simpler and more meaningful then. When we earn more we want to do more with our money and for what exactly? It all comes down to whether we are happy with the way we’re living, so I’d rather skip the new car and spent time with my loved ones. Priceless.
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Exactly. It’s a shame what many people’s live have come too. Score: new luxury car 1, family 0.
An even bigger part of you would die if you didn’t have anywhere to poop, so I wouldn’t feel too bad about your prioritization there!
Great pictures! I’ve been spending most of my free time on our basement project too. Exhausting! Mostly it’s been frustrating because I have so few hours to work on it. Almost ready for electrical, though! Woohoo!
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