Hi there, Mrs. 1500 today asking if you ever go Dutch? I don’t know if this is an offensive term to Dutch people, and I am not trying to be rude. I am just using the most common term for each person paying their own way on a date.
But before we get into this week’s question, I want to share the answers to last week’s question, Would you buy Dead Harold’s house? I’ll also share a shocking revelation about our own home.
As with any yes or no question, the answers fell into either camp. On the yes side, reader Talis Norlund actually had this happen to him. He had to sell his house, and the person he sold it to passed away inside. He was able to repurchase his house, and has experienced no weird juju from it.
Buck from Bucking-the-Trend would also buy the house. Since some people WOULD feel weird about buying it, he feels he would be doing the family a favor.
Done by Forty suggested factoring in a discount and seeing if the rental would make money after that. He also says he wouldn’t be freaked out, but his wife might be.
On the other side of the coin, Jake from Ca$h-Funny says he would stay away. It would be ok if he didn’t know about it, but if he did, he would feel uncomfortable. Brad at Richmond Savers would also pass. Anna from Are Ya Gonna Eat That says it would give her the heebie jeebies, (which is an awesome phrase!) and would not be able to be comfortable in the home.
Wendy from The Budget Professional was the first to bring up liability and the realtor’s responsibility to inform potential buyers. I was wondering about that myself, under the assumption that it would HAVE to be disclosed. Imagine my surprise when a very small bit of research turned up very few states having the disclosure law. California realtors must disclose any death that happened in the last 3 years, and after that they don’t have to tell anything. There was a case in 2010 in Colorado about a family that had signed a rent-to-own contract for a property they thought was perfect. Turns out there was a serial killer who rented it before them and did his murdering in the smaller house at the back of the property. Colorado doesn’t have any law stating you have to inform potential buyers about deaths of any kind on the property.
Ghost in the Garage?
A casual conversation with a new neighbor last week revealed that our house has also seen suicide, albeit more than 35 years ago. Apparently, someone hanged themselves in our garage. Not so common knowledge because only two neighbors have lived on the street that long. I feel no weirdness about owning the house with this new knowledge, because the original garage has long ago been torn down and replaced with the Garage-Mahal (seriously about 3/4 the size of the teeny house, which just makes the garage look even bigger) but also because it happened so long ago and I did not know them. Many people have lived in the house since that happened. Plus, I don’t believe in ghosts.
I like the pragmatic response from Jane Savers over at Solving the Money Puzzle, who said that she lives in an old farm house, and she was certain people had died in her home because 100 years ago, people died at home rather than in a hospital.
Now with that happy note, let’s talk about who pays when you go on a date.
In American society, it is expected that the man pay for the dates, as least most of the time. (Don’t get mad at me, I didn’t make up this rule.) I don’t know where it came from, and I honestly don’t care enough to do any research, because for this week’s question, it doesn’t really matter.
1,000 years ago when Mr. 1500 and I were dating, he made significantly more money than I did, so I didn’t feel all that bad that he paid for more of the dates than I did. Of course, even back then we didn’t have expensive taste. While I did treat him occasionally, he did pay for the lion’s share of our dates. Sister 1500 is now dating, and when I asked her about a recent date, she said she didn’t like him because he dressed like a slob (pot calling the kettle black, but that is a story for another time) and because the date was Dutch.
I think on a first date, the guy should pay. Especially when you meet, as they did, online. But even as I type that, I feel as though that is wrong. Why shouldn’t you each pay your own way? I know that I paid for more dates than most of my girlfriends, who seemed to think that if the guy wanted to spend time with them, he had to spend money on them. (I don’t have a lot of those friends anymore…)
So, do you ever go Dutch?
I let Mr PoP pay for our first date (mostly because we had argued about this in the hypothetical a year before and he was firmly in the “guys pay” camp and I didn’t want to start off on the wrong foot0. But after that, we informally alternated who paid – I generally made more than he did back then so it would have felt wrong to insist he pay all time.
Mrs PoP @ Planting our Pennies recently posted…He Said She Said – Miley Cyrus And Growing Up
Mr. 1500 and I seemed to alternate paying after a while, too. He still paid for more dates than I did, but we did relatively cheap things, like a museum or movie/dinner at Chipotle. It was always more about spending time with him than him spending money on me.
The last time I was on a date was when I was about 15 or 16, and back then everyone is broke so everyone just paid for themselves (oh the life of having no money!).
Michelle recently posted…Things That I Do To Save Money
Answer is it depends.
There are many women out there who just keep rotating on first dates throughout the week to get free meals. A guy has 2 or 3 of these in each of back to back weeks, you can start to see how he is more likely to not be so cool with paying on a first date.
That said, my personal point of view, most women who are asked to pay half on the first date will ensure it is the last one as well. So I give you that position between the rock and the hard place in the modern internet dating world.
That’s why I’d (when i was doing this) would make the date for drinks with an eye towards dinner. That way, there was an out if something didn’t feel right to either one of us.
With my now wife, I paid all the time until she finally put her foot down and insisted she pay. I would guess about 11 dates in.
I like that she put her foot down and wanted to start paying for dates. I guess you liked that too. It is sad that there are some women who just want a free meal. I remember a date with a guy I met at the bar I worked at. He said, on the way to dinner, “I just want to be honest with you. My ex-girlfriend is pregnant with my baby.” I responded, “OK, you should have told me that before you picked me up. You can take me home now.” If I already know how it is going to end, I don’t want to waste my time, even for a free meal.
Thanks for the mention! I’m pretty old school and think the guy should pay on the first date… but, I mostly just buy a beer or something, so it’s cheap. More often than not, as soon as the bill comes, the guy swipes it towards him anyway.
anna recently posted…Wedding Update – Love Me Some Food Tasting and Star Wars Cake Toppers
This is true. Most guys feel obligated to pay. They do start letting you get the bill the longer you date, which I totally agree with. Why should it always be on them?
This is a topic that deserves consideration. I don’t think it’s fair for the man to bear the burden of having to pay all the time. However, I also think that how money is handled early on can be a factor in how a relationship develops over time.
I think a man needs to feel a certain sense of responsibility and a woman needs to feel a certain sense of security. The foundation for that is set early on. It’s far more complicated than who pays for dinner, but it sort of starts there.
I liked what another commenter said…to meet for a drink or coffee and see where that leads. It won’t break the bank and no-one feels obligated or cheated. If a woman felt that he was being cheap, well, she probably isn’t worth the cost of a dinner anyway!
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Wow, you should have written this post. You are right, how a man handles his money on a date is indicative of how he handles it in life. Or should be.
Well… I think it depends. I’m 27, and have been engaged for the past three years, so my experience is from when I was in my early-twenties as an undergrad. I think the first date is generally the guy that pays, but after that it depended on who I was dating honestly. If it was another student we’d split, or if it was longer term than that we’d rotate back and forth. If it was someone who already had a career they generally treated me even if I offered.
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On a first date, unless I was doing the asking, I let the guy pay. That just seems to be the way it is, and most people agreed.
I’m like some dude from the 1950’s when it comes to paying…I just like doing it. I don’t know why. It makes no sense, & even less financial sense. Oh well, ’tis what it is.
Done by Forty recently posted…Net Worth Update & No Auto October
You are right, it doesn’t make any sense.
I think the guy should always pay. The only time I let my girlfriend (now wife) pay was when it was for my birthday or some other special occasion that she wanted to take me out for. Even during these times I felt weird letting her pay.
Jake @ Ca$h Funny recently posted…Who is Dave Ramsey and What Does He Teach?
There are many guys who have responded like this. I still think the woman should pay some times. Especially if it is a long-term relationship.
I’ve only gone dutch with girlfriends after the relationship was developed, never on the first date. Even with the higher earnings of women these days and the confusion of men regarding shifting roles, I think it’s important (if you’re serious about a woman) to demonstrate a hint at your ability to carry a family without her working. My last girlfriend made 3X my salary and would sometimes pay the bill, but still had an eye towards being able to quit and raise kids at least for a short while. So I think it’s important that the message you’re sending on a date is congruent with what you want out of it.
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You are a wise man, Ross Lukeman 🙂
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I think on a first date, the woman should definitely offer to pay. If the guy declines that offer and wants to pay, no problem in my book! 😉
Now that my BF and I have been dating for awhile, we switch off. We both have jobs and can support ourselves; its not fair that he would always have to pay for our dates!
Ashley @ Saving Money in your Twenties recently posted…What’s Holding You Back?
I like this attitude!
I believe the man should pay but in my case my date (now husband) would only go Dutch. After months of dating I asked him to take me out so I would feel cared for. He refused on principle because he felt that women take advantage of men. I make double his income so I explained that I could afford it but wanted to know he cared. It was tough but I am glad I did not give up on him because he is the most loving caring husband. We just celebrated our second anniversary.
I think it depends how the date occurred. If it was an online thing through a website, then go dutch since each person is looking for a date. If the guy asks someone out on the date, he should pay as a way of saying thank you to the lady (or guy) for giving him their time. Unless they absolutely refuse to be paid for, then you just have to ninja the bill. Once you get to 2nd and 3rd dates, I think the bill should be split in some fashion (one buys the tickets, the other buys popcorn and soda).
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This was an online date, so I feel Dutch would have been fine.
Like most men, I always pay on the first date. It’s actually quite a confidence booster to pay for the first date. After that, anything goes. I find that if you make similar amounts of money we typically switch off, but never go Dutch, not sure why.
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Yeah, I never went Dutch either. Someone paid for the whole bill. We might have split the date, where someone paid the entire movie tab and the other paid the entire dinner tab, but we never paid our own way once we started dating. I don’t know why, either.
lol. I guess there aren’t many single readers out there?
Most first dates I’ve gone on have been coffee dates so I always bring small change to contribute to the bill or pay the entire bill. I’m happy to “go Dutch”, but it’s a bit of a turn off for the guy to loudly have to ask the waitress for separate checks for $2.00 cups of coffee!
After that, I’m happy to take turns planning the dates and paying. I tend to prefer frugal outings anyway.
Another turn-off is guys who want to make a big show of spending money on you. Maybe it’s my age, but a guy who’s got his financial life in order is more attractive than an impulse spender.
On a first date the guy pays. I’ve dated girls that never paid and it got old really quickly. On my first date with my wife I bought dinner and she paid for drinks.
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Its been a few years since my ‘first date’ but the general rule I’ve always followed, with regards to first dates anyway, is that the person doing the asking does the paying. That means that if a guy asks a girl he pays and if a girl asks a guy she pays.
After the first date it tends to change to taking turns to pay the bill or splitting the bill in half regardless of who ordered what (the latter depending on finances of course).