What if you run out of money? You will have failed and good luck with that!
Over the weekend, a story about the FIRE movement appeared in the New York Times. The comment above was from one of the naysayers on social media. I also saw this:
What if the stock market crashes and you lose your money?
And this:
A common theme is “I hate my occupation” which is sad. A couple million at 30 years old isn’t enough to live well into one’s 80s with two kids assuming university one day, inflation at 3%, inheritance, etc @ obsolete 4% withdrawal rate
These folks have a bad case of One More If syndrome.
One More If Syndrome
Most have heard of One More Year syndrome. That’s when you’re set to leave work, but can’t quite do it, so you hang on for another year. Maybe you have a bonus coming up or you just haven’t figured out life post-job yet.
A related and more insidious disease is called One More If syndrome. You may have a case of One More If syndrome if you’ve ever uttered any of the following:
What if the 4% Rule doesn’t hold up?
What if social security fails?
What if the stock market goes to zero?
Will I be a poor example for my kids if I leave work?
All of those things may happen. Leaving work at an early age is a calculated risk. I acknowledge that I may go down in flames, but I don’t think it will happen. I’ve thought about numbers and money for years. My moat is large and I have backup plans for my backup plans.
And there are downsides to staying at a job you no longer need. They aren’t as obvious, but they are there.
To the naysayers:
If I didn’t leave my job, I wouldn’t be able to spend the amount of time with my children that I do now. Being able to work on math or hike with them down by the creek for hours every day is incredible.
If I didn’t leave my job, my health may have still been on a poor trajectory. Sitting behind a keyboard for 8 hours a day was doing me no favors. I’m 25 pounds lighter and no longer suffer from hypertension.
If I didn’t leave my job, I wouldn’t have time to pursue activity that really matters to me. I love to build with my hands. I love to read and think.
If I didn’t leave my job, I wouldn’t be able to do the work that’s really important to me. That’s right, I said work. I love to write and create. I still write code (I was a software developer) occasionally too. I work on my own terms and I do it for happiness, not money.
Now that I’ve left my job (16 months ago!), I’ve realized that I’ll never get around to doing most of the things on my retirement list. There are no do-overs in life, but I should have left sooner.
What Most Miss
The hedonic treadmill isn’t a recipe for happiness. I’ve been there and done that. A big home didn’t make me happy. What most miss it this:
A frugal, simple life is often the happiest, most content way to live. A side effect of living this way is that you may just end up with a lot of extra money. Working towards early retirement is really just pursuing a fulfilling life. It isn’t a compromise or sacrifice.
And to build on the above:
Money isn’t the goal. Money is just the starting point. Money is a facilitator. The FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement is really about living intentionally. While it would be arrogant to say that you can’t do this with a job, it’s difficult to reconcile the life you truly want to live with committing 2,000 hours per year to someone else. There just isn’t enough time.
I’d also ask the naysayers why they set the bar so low for themselves. Stop making excuses for who and why you are. Once you stop, it’s easier to imagine the person you might become.
Live Big
When we’re young, time seems infinite. It’s only when we’re old or have a near-death experience that we really appreciate just how valuable time is. Money is renewable, time isn’t. Think about this daily.
So yes, I may not succeed. My money may run out before I die. And if it does, I’ll just get a job*.
To the naysayers, I say this:
I’d rather live big and fail than never try.
Do what you’re meant to do before it’s too late.
I’m so grateful for all of this.
*A fellow blogger, Joel from FI180 said it best.
What happens if I run out of money? I go and get another job.
My worst-case scenario is everyone else’s daily life. I can live with that.
Worst case scenario. I live like No One Else.
I just hit fast-forward on my FI journey….
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Because I LOVE this article….
Thanks so much! Now get back to those kettlebells!
I enjoyed reading this. I’m sitting in front of my year 8 English class while they’re doing a grammar test.
The room is quiet – I can hear a raven caw as it flies over our classroom. It’s the beginning of Spring and the sun is weak, but bright.
You know, I’d far rather be out in my back garden, planting seeds right now, instead of ‘shhhing’ kids and thinking about the work we’re going to be doing next period on their essay on ‘The Hunger Games.’
You go and enjoy that free time – for all the rest of us…
You paint a good picture Frogdancer.
And life is pretty good over here. I’ll be here to welcome you when you make the jump!
Ah yes – the “what if” game. I know it well. I would counter the naysayers with: what if you saved and saved and saved until you were SUPER SAFE and then died before ever achieving your goals? That’s the bigger fear for me. I’m happy taking this calculated risk and completely agree with you and Joel – the worst outcome is my current situation. I’ll take it.
Yep. Buying the Dirt Farm with $10,000,000 in the bank is failure in my opinion.
Love it Carl! We’ll said. Love the New York Times story and I agree. If everything fails you can always find a job. It’s far worse to be stuck in a cube and wanting to get out but can’t.
Congrats Carl. That’s a huge feature. I agree with you 100%. My worse case scenario is everyone else’s daily grind. I love it.
Sometimes you just have to take a chance and go for it. Most regular people aren’t willing to do that.
I’m close to fi, but that “what if” game is real! Thx for the perspective.
It’s very real! It took me years to conquer it myself. All of these fantastic days living life are the best way to make all of those “what ifs” disappear.
Well said Carl, And because “I have backup plans for my backup plans”, you are most likely fine too!
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And people have to remember that nothing is certain. If you’re holding out for 99% certainty with anything in life, you’re going to be holding out for a long time.
In the NYT, very nice!
It’s all risk, both staying at work and leaving early. It’s how you prepare for each and make the right choices to be happy within either situation.
Yep.
According to the Mayo Clinic, sitting for 8 hours is equivalent to obesity or smoking: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/expert-answers/sitting/faq-20058005
Congrats on being featured in the NY Times Carl! You’re famous now!
I think exactly the same way. If there’s a 20% chance of running out of money, that also means I have an 80% chance of not running out. That beats vegas odds any day!
I’ll take my chances if the worst that can happen is I get another job.
“When we’re young, time seems infinite. It’s only when we’re old or have a near-death experience that we really appreciate just how valuable time is.” This! But, like you said, there are no do-overs. We only have this one life. Plus, everything in life has its risks. Everything. Love this post! 🙂
Thank you!
I had a teacher that banned all “what if” questions. She said they weren’t a useful way to spend our time or mental energy. That ban worked well for her in our classroom, and it works well for me now. There’s tons of ways for things to go wrong (trust me, I know) so instead of freaking yourself out with all the negative possibilities, put some brain power and effort into making sure things go well instead!!
the risk of living a much less joyful life is real. people shouldn’t underestimate that. certainly there’s an “enough” sweet spot that can be elusive. i had an un-frugal night of dinner and wine out and about with 6 old friends last night. it wasn’t cheap and it wasn’t about the good food and wine, but about the company. i might not see them again for 6 months or a year so that makes it worth it. we just don’t splurge twice a week without this good reason.
congrat’s on the feature!
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“…but about the company.” And this is what life is really about too.
Loved the NYT article, congrats on the features. F the haters!! We have been squirreling away cash, tracking (and lowering) expenses since the afternoon I read the Go Curry Cracker article on yahoo a few years ago. I am amazed at what we have been able to accomplish is such a relatively short time. Yes, we already had “average” saving habits, but we were able to make lots of little changes and supersize our savings. Now I am ready to step away from my full time (+ 2 hour commute) in November. I will be getting a part time job, one I can bike to and one that I enjoy. I hope to someday be able to step away completely but for me, a move to part time will be a huge stress reliever and life improver! My first baby step towards FIRE and the freedom it brings. Our mass saving will slow down, but we have a huge chunk already that is working hard for us so I know we will be A-ok. Thank you for the inspiration and the motivation!!
The massive saving might have been the hardest thing for me to let go of. However, 16 months later, I hardly think about it. Life is good over here.
Preach! I love the paradigm switch presented here.
Thank you!
This all sounds great, if only everyone could do it! The reality is, this is only possible with poor people to fund rich lifestyles. Assume the 60 some odd million baby boomers alive today had followed this advice and saved 1 million a piece. That’s about 60 trillion bucks. It’s even worse if all 83 million millennials do the same. The truth of all this is, if everyone saved in this way the economy would collapse because it is kept afloat by poor people spending every dime they make and often going into debt as well. Rich lifestyle is funded by the money recyclers, the poor who the money goes to and immediately leaves. Those stock prices go up because those companies keep wages low, pay as little taxes as possible, and sell goods and services to those who don’t save. If they did save instead of spending all they had, our stock prices would have crashed when these companies failed or at best would have remained flat. During the recession people began saving just a couple percent more of their income instead of taking on more debt, and the results to our GDP were immediate and long lasting. Rich people make money off the earnings of others less fortunate. And if they were all fortunate enough to save as much, none of them would be rich. This system relies on inequality and the rich ride the economy on the backs of the desperate. By all means, be successful, but at least own up to the effect and the truth of our actions. If we can retire early (and I have), at least acknowledge it’s only because a few dozen others cannot. Also, hope that people don’t follow your advice en masse, because if they do, we’ll all be poor.
I don’t have the background to answer intelligently respond, but another blogger wrote a piece about it. I’d be curious to see what you think of it: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/09/what-if-everyone-became-frugal/
One other thing I’d add is that I don’t think what I’ve done will ever go mainstream. In my own life, most of my friends and relatives think I’m a nutter. Some even see what I’ve done as an insult to their lifestyle: “Good for you, but I’ll take my car built in this decade over your 2003 Honda and your bicycle.”
Have you watched the latest Bigger Pockets Money Podcast where Mrs. 1500 interviewed Jillian Johnsrud? I truly believe that ‘anyone’ who really ‘wants’ to do it ‘can’ do it. Or have you read about Ronald Read, who worked as a gas station attendant and then a janitor and died with an 8 million dollar fortune? The key here is discipline, which most don’t have. And I’m talking about folks all up and down the economic spectrum. And yes, we can sit around and talk about all of the inequalities that exist in the world and why we should or should not have it so good, but I prefer financial evolution so that my kids can be the first in my family tree to never experience poverty, as well as creating an education foundation to help those who have the discipline to help themselves. Maybe deep down I actually share some of your feelings, but I always remember a quote from one of my favorite movies when I start to feel guilty:
Crawley Dake: “I never saw a rich man that didn’t wind up with a guilty conscience.”
Wyatt Earp: “Already have a guilty conscience. Might as well have the money too.”
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Isn’t it interesting that “IF” and “FI” are opposites?
How does the old saying go? “If “ifs and buts” were candy and nuts….”
LOVE!!
Haha, this is great!
It seems few of those leaving NYT comments respect the risk that modern jobs present. I have come to believe that higher stress sedentary jobs have powerfully negative impacts on long-term health. If, as I believe, a major benefit of FIRE is less time sitting, the naysayers- who claim higher ground on risk control- are missing this major risk completely.
I have a 66 year old neighbor who has had 9 back surgeries. He lends to me books he has read in the last couple of years because he doesn’t want my life to be dominated by back issues like his. The gist of the books- modern higher stress/lower movement work-as opposed to structural issues in the back- are to blame for an epidemic of back issues. This neighbor now believes that had he sat much less, moved much more, and practiced meditation, his back issues and surgeries would have been avoided. It’s sad to hear him say to me- it’s too late for him, but it’s not too late for me. But he is likely right as his mobility and pain issues are significant.
YES! Check this out from the May Clinic: “An analysis of 13 studies of sitting time and activity levels found that those who sat for more than eight hours a day with no physical activity had a risk of dying similar to the risks of dying posed by obesity and smoking.”
Read more here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/expert-answers/sitting/faq-20058005
“My worst-case scenario is everyone else’s daily life. I can live with that.”
Your readership can say we take vicarious pride in seeing you live out your best case scenario. It’s inspiring to see you direct the journey, ignore the ifs, and own the outcome.
I had the pleasure of my wife, a NYT addict, sending me a link to the article with excited commentary, “FIRE article is the most e-mailed on the NYT site!” She lit up when I informed her that the story’s hero family were the invisible friends I’d met up with a few months back, so the good news is she no longer thinks you and Mrs. 1500 are serial killer perverts. Way to destigmatize online blogger friendships!
Hopefully this article touches at least one person who dives down the rabbit hole and lives a more meaningful life thanks to your example.
Thanks for making yourself vulnerable in such a public forum to show your fellow lemmings we need not jump.
Fondly,
CD
Well, I have some bad news for you. We are actually a family of serial killer perverts. The public park that we met at was a good call because had there been fewer people around… 🙂
“Hopefully this article touches at least one person who dives down the rabbit hole and lives a more meaningful life thanks to your example.”
I hope it does too. I tend to think that these stories are a curiosity to most. People like to read about money, so these stories have a tendency to go big. However, most will dismiss it out of disbelief and move on.
That last sentence sums it up, Carl. We’re far from our FI number but are shooting for a yearlong mini retirement in 3ish years, and as I stress through another quarter-end in the tech industry, I like to think about how that mini retirement will hopefully stretch into more. Or at least transition into a different way of earning money than going back to a six figure, high stress job. We’re young enough that our retirement accounts have plenty of time to grow to where we’d need them to be at 65.
Thanks for the inspiration, as always!
Thanks for the kind comment Britt and a mini-retirement is a great idea. I wish that I would have done it.
And I hear that there will be another Camp FI in Minnesota. Maybe I’ll catch you and A around the Twin Cities?
Awesome! Yes for sure. We’re talking about going to the MidAtlantic one next year because my parents are in VA and could take the kids for the whole time.
But either way – if you’re in MN, please let us know! My 3yo loooves dinosaurs and yours are celebrities 🙂
Oooh, I’ll bring some dinosaurs for the 3-year-old! I have a stash just for these occasions!
Live Big or Go… to work.
Congratulations on your feature in the NYT, and what’s this I hear about Good Morning America tomorrow?!?
I need to hurry up and FIRE already so I can enjoy the good, slower life. Next year, buddy. You know, one more year. But I mean it this time!
Cheers!
-PoF
p.s. I recognize that dock. West shore of Mullett Lake, am I right? Our friends from moneymetagame.com are enjoying that view as we speak.
Mullett Lake indeed. Life is great when you have good friends who will share their beer and modest vacation homes!
What a small world…my parents live on the west shore of Mullet Lake about 3 miles north of Topinabee!
I had two separate people share the article with me over the weekend knowing that I quit my dream job 19 months ago to “retire”. But more importantly, to slow down and enjoy the formative years with my children. LIke you, I’m far healthier and generally happier now. We had time to take a 22-state, 20,000 mile road trip pulling an RV. Who else has done that in their 30s? Not many folks!
I sometimes (frequently) fear running out of money. I’ll probably find some way to get paid for something now that we’re back home. But in the worst-case of “One More If”, we’ve got time to figure it all out.
Bogleheads have a pretty interesting topic going on the article. I think they might be the most risk adverse group going. Even if you had 10 million it wouldn’t be enough.
Sad. Money is renewable. Time is not.
When most people think “Retirement” they are thinking about not working (i.e., not generating earned income). I think there are a good chunk of people who read blogs like yours, MMM and others and get the idea that they can FIRE after hitting a certain number but don’t recognize that you and MMM are generating a good chuck of money through your blog. There is nothing wrong with that so long as the people who are jumping on the bandwagon know that many people who write about FIRE are making very good money talking about FIRE. FIRE itself is an “industry”. They (the bloggers) themselves have revenue streams that the the average person who wants to quit work won’t want to or have the ability to generate for themselves.
You’re absolutely right here. There are a lot of things that you can’t learn from me including living on the 4% Rule and having to navigate the world of health insurance post-FI. There is a lot of money in talking about not making money! (retirement)
While my blog doesn’t make the huge money that some others do ($2,000/momth), it’s massive when you talk about living on $40,000/year. My 4% Rule got kicked down to less than 2%. And then there is the fact that my wife went back to work right when I stopped. There is a lot more to tell about all of this which I’ll do next week. But, you and others have every right to call this out.
The thing you can learn from me though is this: amazing things can happen when you follow your bliss. I wrote for myself and in the first 3 years of blogging, I made about $100. Total. I didn’t care that no one was reading because it was my passion. And then boom, the blog starts to take off. Meanwhile, my hypertension is gone and I’m enjoying life more than I ever have.
Thanks for the response. People can easily see the difference between someone who started a blog from the seed of passion versus the seed of greed. If you start it for the wrong reasons it will show. That is why your blog is successful.
Love you line about how time isn’t renewable. Neither is youth and health for that matter. I find that I catch myself take things for granted and don’t live in the moment.
I think most of our FIRE-lovers are very future oriented and that’s a great and much needed skill to have when growing your nest-egg. But the future-orientation leads us to live in the future rather than be in the present moment and think about “living” be it big or small or any other size.
Thanks for sharing.
“But the future-orientation leads us to live in the future rather than be in the present moment and think about “living” be it big or small or any other size.”
Yep. I lived this way for many years and it’s toxic. I even wrote about it here: https://www.1500days.com/death-march-financial-independence/
We must enjoy and appreciate every single day.
Well said. It’s never good to make major life decisions out of fear. The one more year syndrome, the what if syndrome, the once I have syndrome…all fearful responses to taking risks. Sometimes you just have take the leap. I’m trying to learn from you all.
Hi! I just found your blog a few days ago and am currently on your April 21, 2015 post entitles ‘the Mr. 1500 definition of living below your means’. Just wanted to introduce myself because I’ve been reading about your life and felt it only right to introduce myself. I’m a 22 year old recent college graduate. I pride myself in only spending 26% of my monthly income on necessary expenses (food, transport, car insurance, etc). Your blog is proving to provide a great wealth of information and entertainment and I wanted to thank you! Keep up the good work Mr and Mrs 1500!
Wow, this put a huge smile on my face this morning. What an inspiration!
I have no idea what I was doing when I was 22, but I wasn’t thinking like you. You’ll be done before you’re 30!
Pedal to the metal!
Thanks for the post. Great insight and spot on. I worked with miserable people before I FIRE’d and everyday I asked myself what could possibly motivate someone to continue working every day in a role they loathed. Still don’t have a real answer but I know money isn’t worth the misery. Time is the most valuable currency.
I really love this article, because sometimes in one moment, I read one thing that speak for me!
I know that now I am just 24 years old but like everybody, I also have my own things about my job. I just want to concern about your last part in article, is ” Money is renewable, time isn’t” and honesty, I always esteem time. Sometimes I think I need to work to get money in order to meet all my needs like shopping, travel,…but I really don’t like this job. So after 1 months I quit my job and sitting to rethink and now I didn’t regret about my decision. I think firstly I need to live for myself before I prepare enough to get one job that I exactly love!
The main thing I’m getting out of your article is that you shouldn’t base your life on what if’s, which applies to many things. I completely agree with this take. I think the goal of reaching financial independence is great, and something I’m striving for as well. My issue is with the concept of FIRE, because I think most people who claim to have reached FIRE are not really truly retired, they’ve just changed jobs. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just not really FIRE. To truly retire takes years of hard work and frugality, and unfortunately I don’t think it’s attainable for many. Truly achieving FIRE at a young age is a privileged perspective in my opinion.
Hmmm, I agree that the definition of FIRE should probably be to have enough money to never have to make another dime again, except from investments.
However, I do think it’s attainable by many. I see stories like Zeona McIntyre who figures out a way in just a couple years. There are a million ways to make money with the internet.
Consider it another way. 40 years ago, the average home size in America was 1700 square feet. Not, it’s 2700. How much more money would folks have if they just stuck to a modest home and did nothing else?
“Truly achieving FIRE at a young age is a privileged perspective in my opinion.”
I’m not sure what age you’re thinking, but yeah, 30 is going to be difficult and I’m not sure that’s a great idea anyway.
I borrowed and modified a line from Joe McMillan of Halt and Catch Fire: Money isn’t the thing. It’s the thing that gets us to the thing. We can get zeroed in on the money goal, but it’s only the key that frees us from the prison of mandatory work. Then life begins anew.
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