Hi there, Mrs. 1500 today, asking about frugal travel and more broadly, lifestyle inflation.
(Today’s post is inspired by Mr. 1500’s 3-leg, all-day flight from Denver to Florida to save $20 per person.)
Mr. 1500 note: Flying from Denver to Jacksonville is painful; not a lot of options…
We have two small children who thrive on a consistent bedtime/wake-up routine, and who turn into Satan when their schedule is disrupted. We live 45 minutes from the airport, and less expensive, off-airport parking adds another 15-25 minutes to our get-to-the-airport timeline.
Mr. 1500 note: Mrs. 1500 is completely right about our kids’ disposition. With adequate sleep, they are angels. Without:
Mr. 1500 thinks nothing of booking a flight that leaves at 5 am or arrives back to the airport at 11:30 pm. These are the cheapest flights, and he can save tens of dollars by booking them.
Mr. 1500 note: That’s tens of dollars per person.
Mrs. 1500 rebuttal: Sigh…
What Mr. 1500 fails to consider is the effect this has on the children, turning them into vile creatures who take their sleepiness and discombobulation out on us. Getting them back on their schedule takes a few days, too.
And it doesn’t stop with crazy flight schedules.
Mr. 1500 recently read this article about a new flight seat design where you stand up during the entire flight, with only a saddle-style seat upon which to rest your bottom.
Oh yeah, let’s book flights on that plane to save fifty cents. I think Mr. 1500 would book a spot in the cargo hold to save a dollar…
Mr. 1500 note: I totally would. Hell, I’d ride in a class lower than the chickens if I could.
First class? Put me in last class baby.
<At this time, Mr. 1500 takes over the post.>
Mr. 1500’s Thoughts
I started thinking about my over-the-top frugality while out on a walk. Mrs. 1500 has a point. I still try hard to save money whenever I can. Probably too hard:
- Thermostat: I’m perfectly fine keeping our home in the low 60s. Mrs. 1500, not so much.
- Old clothes: Up until a few years ago, I still had underpants from high school. They had holes in them, but hey, air conditioning! Unfortunately, Mrs. 1500 intervened and tossed them away.
- Manual labor: I change my own oil, shovel the snow and move my own rocks. I’ll probably never give this up because I like the exercise that comes along with the labor.
Why am I so eager to save a buck? I thought about it for a while and then I realized something:
With the exception of Asterisk the Car*, I’m still living like I did when I was one year removed from college and $60,000 in debt.
But, circumstances have changed. I have a family now. I also have money.
I have decided to back off the frugalness in certain cases. For all of our summer travel, I booked reasonable flight times. It hurt a little to give up some extra points just to fly a couple hours later, but we won’t have to incur the wrath of miserable children. I’ll be more mindful when it comes to other decisions where we could trade a few dollars to get some time or sanity back.
It’s still a struggle though. I don’t want to ever waste money.
How About You?
- When is it OK to stop being super frugal?
- What items are OK to let go?
- If you have found yourself in a better financial position, what have you let go?
*Why is the car named Asterisk? It’s because I’m super frugal*.
See what I did there?
Flights is something I’m not very frugal. For short flights, I don’t care about the airline or the comfort. But for longer flights (say 10 hours) , I only take direct flights and with better airlines. Only economy of course, but still. 12 hours in a seat smaller than me and having to do three stops just to save 50$ does not cut it for me.
It’s great that you are able to save though 🙂
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We have a 20-hour (including a stopover) flight later this year. The longest flight I’ve taken previously was 10 hours. 20 hours will NOT be fun and maybe I’ll view travel differently after that!
Around the time I turned 42, I pretty much went exclusively to business class flights. This came with the realization that my dividends (always reinvested) were growing pretty rapidly, my monthly passive income was growing steadily, and I fully expected that when I stopped earning an income, say around age 55, I would be able to meet my expenses indefinitely without dipping into capital. At that point, I started asking myself why exactly I was being so frugal as to fly coach?
Outdoor sports are a huge part of my lifestyle so I often let lifestyle inflation creep in regarding the gear needed to do them safely. Especially for climbing. To stay safe when rock climbing or ice climbing it’s worth it to have the right gear, enough of it, and the recognized brands. Besides that I’m kind of a cheapskate 😉
I love the mindful spending! Maybe it’s because this is an area of my like that I allow myself to get crazy too ($3600 of bicycles sitting in the garage).
Spending money on activities that promote good health is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Come on! Craigslist carabiners and rock pro, what could go wrong? We actually had a student buy his trad gear used on ebay. No words.
Is it wrong that I buy underwear from Craigslist?
Toilet paper and garbage bags!
I just suck it up and buy the expensive versions. Too many failure modes with high impact of failure to buy the cheap stuff.
Ha! There is no place for cheap TP. Ever.
I try to walk the line between frugal and cheap. There are plenty of things I will be cheap on and things I will take a frugal approach to. The real balance is knowing when to spend a little more for comfort.
With airlines and hotels, I will sort by price (low to high) and then start factoring in reviews, location, and amenities. The other week we got a $99 hotel w/o “free” breakfast over a $130 hotel with “free” breakfast. The $99 also had a water park on it. Oh no we spend $25 on (a delicious) breakfast but spent an hour going down water slides before heading along on our travels.
Overall I think we’ll let off on the pedal and let some creep in when we hit our savings targets.
It also matters if the “free food” is worth $30 or if it is stale sweet rolls and aged fruit medley.
We fly coast to coast usually once a year to visit family, and we are certainly flexible to try and save some cash when the entire family of 5 is flying, but I’m not going to make 3 connections and get up at 3 am to save $50. That’s when the convenience factor kicks in a for me and try dragging three teenagers out of bed at the wee hours of the morning is pointless. 🙂
There are some name brand food items too that I like over their cheaper no-name brands, just preferences in taste. And like James said, can’t go cheap on the TP and garbage bags. 🙂
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Good post. I am married to a man who ALWAYS chooses the cheapest option. It is fine on most days, but SOMETIMES it is horrible. So I can relate to Mrs. 1500.
We are pretty frugal about most things, but I pushed hard to allow my kids to go to any university they wanted. I know my husband would definitely have limited them to state schools, but I grew up very poor. I spent a lot of my teen years worrying that I wouldn’t be able to afford college. So it was a gift to give our children the choice of ANY school they got into. They all got academic scholarships (which only covered a portion of their costs), and they all did very well. And now they are in their 30’s and appreciative that they don’t have student loan debts.
Seems like a big thing to not be frugal about, but it was part of our value system — education is valuable in our minds. So we all make choices that fit our own lifestyles.
I need to meet your husband! Sounds like a smart guy! I kid, I kid! 🙂
Education, now that’s an interesting one. I was a good student and remember touring Northwestern (fancy college near Chicago). I would have loved to go there, didn’t even bother applying because of how expensive it was.
With that in mind, I think it’s wonderful that you were able to send your children to the school of their choice. Is there a better gift you can give your children than a good education?
I think personal finance is all about balance. Live more comfortable today or save more for the future? Take bigger risks to achieve more reward or play it save?
When I’m traveling solo, I’m more of Mr. 1500’s mindset and prefer to save when possible. When traveling with the wife and kids (aka leisure travel) I try to find the balance between saving and comfort.
If you’re going on a week-long vacation and everybody is exhausted for the first three days, is that really a good idea? Mathematically, if I”m spending $2K on a vacation and spending an extra $100 will increase our enjoyment of it or lower our stress by 25%, it’s well worth it for me. Even if the extra spending means that I vacation 5% less often in the future to balance out the overall costs.
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“If you’re going on a week-long vacation and everybody is exhausted for the first three days, is that really a good idea?”
Yep, I had that exact same thought when writing this article because we’ve been there.
In related news, yesterday I spent $400 on a plane ticket to FinCon. It was still difficult to press the Purchase button, but this is one of the most expensive plane tickets I’ve ever purchased.
Regarding flights, don’t forget that the more connections you have, the more chances for things to go wrong. Just got back from a vacation in the French Riviera. The outbound flight was delayed over 4 hours, so our 8:30p flight ended up leaving after midnight. This meant we missed our connection in London, so had to get booked on the only remaining available flight that day… which was 7 hours later than our original schedule. Fortunately, they let us wait on standby on an earlier flight that ended up having exactly 2 no-shows, so we got in 4 hours later than originally scheduled instead of 7 – but it was a very long, tiring travel day. Multiply that by 2 kids and it would have been a nightmare for everyone!
Great point and a great reminder for me! Last year, we booked a flight to Europe on two different airlines. A debacle that shut down all airports in NYC almost made us miss the second flight. Had we missed it, we would have been out almost $2,000!
And yeah, kids change everything. I can put up with a lot of stuff, but asking children to do the same isn’t right.
I agree. It is even worse if you are using multiple airlines.
We are less frugal on flights now too. Now I pay a bit extra to avoid an extra stop, leaving super early, getting back super late, or a really tight connection. It’s much more difficult when you have a kid along. Previously, I don’t mind missing a flight or getting bumped. But now, I just want to get there/back fast.
Hotel isn’t a big deal to me. Cheap hotels are still pretty good in general.
I totally agree on hotels, The cheaper ones are often better. I noticed the high-end ones don’t have free breakfast like the cheap ones do (shout out to the waffle maker!). Also, they all look the same when your eyes are closed.
we’re hotel cheapskates. i did like the airbnb in nola last month, just for location and the ability to make a pot of coffee in the morning and some plates and silverware on hand. we’re pretty much done with those 5am flights if we can avoid them. we now would rather pay a few bucks more and take fewer trips within a finite budget. we don’t much consider the price of food and drinks while we’re away from home. once again, i’ll take quality of travel over quantity (within reason). don’t you like showing up in a city where your room is ready when you get there?
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Balance is the key… just like there is opportunity costs to spending money… there are opporotunity costs to saving it?? As well.
I guess just put a price on your sanity and compare it to that. Is it more or less?
When it comes to saving money, I’m all for it, I’m more like Mr. 1500 when it comes to being cheap (sorry Mr. 1500, it takes one to know one). But I’ve had to temper that tendency too. I refuse to take a painfully early flight because I think it reduces enjoyment for the entire trip. If I have to wake up so early that I trade sleep, I start out the trip already tired, which is the wrong foot in my opinion. Traveling can be tiring anyway, and it’s hard to catch up on rest.
The subject of underwear, or any clothing actually, is one I agree with Marie Kondo (https://konmari.com/) on. Buy a few things you really love, wear them all the time and enjoy them. Then, when they wear out, toss them and buy your new favorite thing. It’s cheaper in the long run to buy a few high quality items than dozens off the clearance rack that you really don’t like much. Her philosophy is to surround yourself with a FEW items that bring you joy and avoid excess. I apply this to all material possessions, which has helped me simplify and identify those few things that I actually need. It’s also saved me tons of money.
I still have to read that book, but that’s awesome advice. I get good tools and Apple laptops because I don’t disposable nonsense.
I know exactly what you mean. We use to take the flights with long-layovers and weird times to save money. Now that we have kids our *sanity* is more important than saving a few dollars.
We now book direct flights whenever we can… especially on overseas trips.
…besides, I can make it up by cheaping out other ways. Cheap hotel, cheap rental car, cheap food, etc. 😉
Those ‘saddle’ style seats are intriguing. I wonder how long a person can be comfortably seated in one of those?
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“I wonder how long a person can be comfortably seated in one of those?”
I know, right? What if you hit some severe turbulence and sit on your… Oh, never mind!
I used to do whatever saved more, but now that we are FI, I make the environmental choice, even if it is more expensive. For example, I spend more to buy an item made locally (clothes) and buy local, organic foods. I consider it supporting the people doing the work that makes the world a better place. When traveling, I find that I spend on every experience that becomes available (those that appeal to me anyway). It is extremely unlikely that I will every be in that location again, and I already burned the money and fuel to get there. If the museum is expensive, I pay anyway. I’ll hire a local guide to orient me to a foreign city when I first arrive. If the restaurant is well known and unique to the area; the price is right. We trade off other spending to be able to afford these choices.
I like the way you think.
I think it’s all about balance. Last year we traveled 90 minutes to another city’s airport to save $600. It didn’t feel worth it when we had to leave the house at 3 am though!
One thing I don’t compromise on anymore is cheap beer. Life is just too short. Give me a craft beer or give me water!
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“One thing I don’t compromise on anymore is cheap beer.”
I’ll raise a can from my $18 four-pack (WeldWerks) to that!
I read last week airbus is coming out with cargo hold seats where they are sessentially beds you don’t get up from….
In all seriousn as I no longer go to airport before 6 am, so count me with your wife on that one .
I’m not good at being frugal, which is part of the reason I keep up with blogs like this. I’ve tried to cut back on fun travel, as my commute each day is 50 miles/1 hour each way. (I live in the Midwest. And I did get the job I liked to pay me enough to make up for the wear and tear on the car.) I ditto the don’t skimp on toilet paper, but I also don’t skimp on the health care. I had a freak illness a couple years ago, and it’s worth paying to go to the same doctor, just to keep an eye on it. I’m willing to even pay a little more for an insurance plan that covers him!
Whoah, that is a hefty commute! I’m sorry you have it!
And yeah, health care and exercise should be at the top of anyone’s list. All of the money in the world doesn’t mean a thing if you don’t have your health.
Our kids are the same way with sleep and we’ve done all sorts of crazy travel. For us, it’s just a matter of knowing that we need to plan a little time to “reset” (code for “nap”) when we reach our destination.
I can see wanting to save money on flying, because the ticket is per person, so costs jump quickly. It’s easy to say, “Let’s avoid the 3-leg, 12 hour flight, in a chicken coup under the plane” if it’s $20. It’s much more difficult if it’s maybe another couple of hours for $200.
There is a lot of grey… more than 49 different shades, I hear.
I’ve had to consciously work at being less frugal over the last few years. It’s taken a few cases like those 12-hour flights to save $10 where I have to stop and think, “There’s a large chance this is going to go extremely badly, so it’s worth spending a few dollars to avoid it.”
I consider it buying “good life” insurance, as opposed to death insurance.
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Our kids equate naps with something worse than death. Teach me your secrets Lazy Man!
With an eight figure net worth here is what I save on:
1. Still do my own taxes
2. Still clean house by myself
3. Still cook myself
4. Still live in the first house I bought.
5. Have bought a new luxury vehicle in the past but still driving it 14 yrs later. Probably won’t buy another one unless my wife insists.
6. No cable TV, never watch anyway.
7. No financial advisors – fired them all.
8. No nanny
9. Public schools, not private. Helps that we live in one of the best school districts.
10. Frequently take public transportation when travelling, rather than taxis. Lets me to get to know the area, interact more with locals, learn some of the language and daily routines.
Here is what I splurge on:
1. Gardener. Without him, I’d probably have the most (only) weed-infested yard in the neighborhood.
2. Flights (economy only, but direct when possible, and at reasonable hours)
3. Accommodations (mainly for convenience travelling with a kid)
4. Organic foods
5. Restaurants – only consider taste, atmosphere, not price when dining out.
6. Gym
7. Cell phones (coverage and convenience is highest consideration)
8. Insurance for everything
9. Preschool for the kid (vs having the kid at home all day)
10. When booking tickets for anything, I consider convenience above price unless the delta is greater than 30-50%. For example, if a plane ticket is $1000 vs $750 for direct vs 1 transfer, I’d probably pick the $1000 if travelling with a kid.
All these seem reasonable, although I am curious about the insurance. With an 8-figure net worth, you have enough money to cover everything.
The restaurant one resonates. We used to go out once a week, but then realized that we were just paying 4x as much for something we can cook at home. Now, we only go out for something like a good Mole sauce or Thai dish.
I just meant umbrella insurance, homeowners policies, rental property policies, health insurance, auto insurance. I don’t think any net worth is immune to getting sued. I do have a term life policy, thinking about letting that one lapse.
I’m not a great cook, I lost that skill during my working years. Working on that recently. There are a lot of dishes I would never be able to make economically though.
Ahhh, got it. That makes perfect sense. We always get the minimal amount of insurance (high deductibles) to keep it cheap.
To qualify for my umbrella insurance policy, most of the other policies need to be maxed out. The umbrella is really important to me.
I should add, for clothes, I have no name brand for everything and wear something until it wears out. My kid wears hand-me-downs. My wife has no name brand for clothes (she shops at TJ Maxx, etc), but I have bought her a Cartier watch and high end handbags. I buy new underwear every year or two, nothing from high school, that’s disgusting… 😉
My underwear from high-school were this nasty-ass yellow color! I have no idea if they started out that way! 🙂
I stopped changing the oil on my most recent car. If it simply too low to the ground and I don’t have any jack stands, nor do I want to buy a set. I was also getting sick of storing all the old oil and remembering to take it to someplace to recycle it.
Other than that, I try to do as much as I can, but I know my limits and when it is time to hire out.
Oooh, too low to the ground. Do you have an NSX too? If memory serves, you like Acuras!
I’m a frugal guy but I think after having kids…I’ll spend a few extra bucks for my own sanity. I’ll take the super early flight no problem but if I had to deal with dragging my little ones up that early to catch a flight…they’re gonna be cranky and that’ll drive me nuts. Plus my wife stresses me out about their nap schedule! =) Don’t tell her I said that…haha. For short flights, I wouldn’t splurge on first class but I really envy those who can lie down in first class on that long international flight. I was okay in my 20s but as I approach my 40s…my back and tailbone bother me when I sit for so long.
On my last international flight (an overnight), my row of 3 seats was gloriously empty. You’re right, being able to lay down is fantastic.
My wife and I had this same battle two years ago following an unfortunate bumped flight deal. She and a friend excitedly agreed to give up their seats in exchange for a $200 travel voucher. They were able to get home in the same night, but the catch was that the airline booked them on a flight going to a different airport (we live between two major cities) than where her car was parked.
Their great deal required me to drive for two hours to get them at 1-2 am. She then had to spend 5 hours the next day to travel back to the first airport to drive her car home.
Seven additional hours of travel time on an already busy weekend was rough.
Even worse, we weren’t able to use the voucher before it expired, making the entire exercise even more pointless.
Yikes, I still get steamed thinking about it! But it did teach us a little about what our limits are when it comes to time vs money, especially at busy times of the year!
Whoah, most of the time, those vouchers work out just fine. This was not one of those times!
I pay someone to mow the lawn. I detest the chore.
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I don’t mind it! Too bad I don’t live near you or I’d take the job!
To me, it’s all about the big picture priorities… no penny wise/pound foolish, if I can help it.
I take wicked early morning flights because my normal day starts at 4:40am, so a 3:30 wake up for a 5:50am flight is no big deal…. I’d rather have early departure and built in contingency for delays… but I would never drag someone else on that if it wasn’t their schedule – just not worth it.
I just went to The French Laundry for the first (and probably only) time… $350 + alky, plus cheapo hotel… I wore $280 leather Fluvog boots that I had wanted for about a decade and a $4 thrift shop top. And I’m totally fine with it; I have no debt, have robust savings, I help support a family member and am still saving over 50%. I have no cable. My utility bill was $0 this month due to climate credit.
I could get hit by the proverbial bus tomorrow.
To me, it’s all high/low priority setting… know what you want, know what you are willing to compromise on, and know what you could care less about.
You’ll drive yourself crazy conforming to someone else’s expectations, but you’d better be willing to compromise when it comes to your family’s comfort & expectations.
To me, self awareness is the key to happiness on this vs arbitrary rules or living up to someone’s else’s expectations.
“To me, self-awareness is the key to happiness on this vs arbitrary rules or living up to someone’s else’s expectations.”
Wow, right on. The “not living up to someone else’s expectations” is pretty important. If you spend for you, I think that shows maturity and mindful spending. However, if you’re trying to keep up with others, that’s not good.
Helloo!
Just popping in to let you know that I’ve blogged about the Pyongyang marathon. I know you were curious about it after I mentioned it a while ago in a previous comment.
https://dancingwithfrogs.wordpress.com/2018/05/01/china-and-dprk-day-4-part-1-the-pyongyang-marathon/
It’s on my personal blog, not the FI/RE blog. Thought you might be interested in having a look.
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Thanks for sharing! I’m heading over now!
A blog post about this very question: https://whatwecouldbecome.wordpress.com/2017/10/16/when-lifestyle-inflation-is-just-fine/
We made a conscious decision to loosen the purse strings back in 2016 in order to more accurately portray what our baseline spend would be in FI. Basically, we didn’t want to ratchet down the frugality to the point that it was unsustainable, right before we hit FI: that would lead to really poor long term outcomes when we realized five years in that we can’t hack frugality at that intensity.
So now, we have plenty of slack in the budget: we can be more frugal if we want or need to, and we’re planning for financial independence at a level where we can spend a bit more if we want to (we are assuming a 3.5% SWR, but hey, maybe a few years at 4% won’t be terrible).
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It all comes down to comfort. When we travel with our kids, its either in the car or non-stop flights, even if the flights mean spending an extra $50-$100 per person. Our sanity is worth that. Plus, if one plane is delayed and you miss your connection, may God have mercy on your soul….not from the tyrannical behavior from your kids, but from your spouse contemplating collecting the life insurance money when your body is never found!
(I’m sure Mrs. 1500 would completely agree!)
Hilarious, but please don’t give Mrs. 1500 and ideas!
Oh man, that’s just like me, I don’t like throwing things away that are still usable. So I have been using my underpants from my teenager years until my missus chucked them in the bin. I told her it was my good luck underpants that got me through all my academic exams.
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I remember reading about a guy who says he cares so little about clothes that he sometimes looks like he’s homeless, but he was able to save about $100,000 to invest in real estate while living frugally. He knows people think he is broke so no one asks him for money. In reality, he says he is doing very well financially. If it weren’t for being so frugal, he would not be where he is today. When most people spent more around him because of bigger paychecks, he did the opposite and saved more. I say instead of buying a $400 purse with $0 in it, buy a $25 dollar purse and keep the $375 in it. Just my two cents.
Thanks,
Miriam
I’m definitely with your Mrs – and I have no kids and am used to travelling alone. I do live only a 10 minute train ride away from the Dutch international airport, so flight times that are unreasonable for most Dutchies are a lot less so for me – that helps when trying to find a cheap ticket. However, if the choice is getting up at a reasonable hour and/or having a direct flight versus flying at ungodly hours / extra transits, I will only take the cheaper option if I really think it’s worth it. I wouldn’t get up at 5 AM to save 10 euros. I would do so to save 100 euros. Also, it depends on where the transfers are. Anywhere in Europe I don’t mind that much, because your luggage usually gets transferred automatically and you don’t have to go through customs until your final destination (OK, that can and has gone wrong for me, but those are the exceptions, not the rule). However, switching planes in America if you come in from overseas SUCKS, as you have to manually pick up your bag and go through customs, and then check yourself and your bag back in for your ongoing flight right then and there. I’ve spent enough sweaty hours stressing out in long and inefficient custom lines at places like George HW Bush Airport in Houston to be perfectly willing to pay quite a bit of money to NOT have to do that again.
As always, you provide a lot to think about in your quippy fun posts between your wife and your decisions! It’s hard to figure out the best time to let lifestyle creep in when we’re still trying to pay off our mortgage and build towards FI. I think this year, we’ve let it creep in when it comes to doing projects and fixing up our house the way we’d like it to be. We plan to live here forever, so we’ve decided to take some money we otherwise would’ve put to the mortgage ($1,000) and fix up some rooms with decor or doing DIY projects. Those little things make us happy (we enjoy the labor as well!), and it makes paying for the place even more satisfying. You’ve got me thinking more about this… thanks!
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