Why FI??!!! Really Mr. 1500, what a crap title! Can’t you come up with anything better?
Yes, that is another horrible title. What I’m really asking is this:
Why do you strive for Financial Independence?
As crazy as it sounds, when I started this blog, I didn’t really know what my goal was. I was running away from a stressful job, but not running toward anything except a big pile of money. Money is a facilitator, not an end.
I’m in a better place now. I keep track of all of my post-job goals and dreams in online document called FI. It has over 100 items in it now and grows every week. I have some core goals that are at the top of that list. A trip last week made one of them clear, but I’m getting ahead of myself.
First I must get to my favorite responses from last week’s question; do other’s judge you? I wanted to know if you’ve been called a cheapass or some other lovely name because of your frugality. Here is what you had to say:
Sure, I’ve definitely been judged for being frugal. I’ve been called “cheap” or “stingy” way too often!
But it’s water off a duck’s back. I didn’t get to multiple millions because I cared much what other people thought.
Reader SJ:
My mother is most critical of my lifestyle. To be fair, she’s always judged me, but when I became an aggressive saver she really got annoyed.. and annoying… it obviously got under her skin and made her hyper sensitive to her own life failings and uber nit-picky with my behavior.
I’ll bet SJ’s mother is angry at herself for her own shortcomings, failures and regrets.
Mrs. Picky Pincher reminds us how different we all are:
I get judged all the time. In fact, it’s so bad that I can’t even tell my coworkers any details about my life, for fear of letting the frugal cat out of the bag. I was dumb enough to mention our renovation was financed with cash, and they looked like they’d been hit by a car. Once I accidentally said we’re paying off our student loans in a year, and the room actually went silent.
Reader Beth:
I once had a tow truck driver give me grief about being able to pay for an unexpected tire repair without even flinching. “Must be nice to have a car repair fund.” grumble grumble grumble.
I bit my tongue but was put off by his response. Why yes, it is nice to have a car repair fund. It didn’t fall out of the sky. I didn’t win the lottery. It was planning and money management. When you drive a 12 year old car, that’s just what you do.
And finally, Mike Hardy makes a nice point:
True excellence in any endeavor (FIRE or profession or sport or etc) requires large set of behaviors that are different from the norm (or they would generate mediocrity) so pursuing excellence will always make you different, eventually you won’t be able to hide it, and differences get teased. C’est la vie
Why FI?
I went on a work trip to Chicago last week. I built in some extra time and swung through the town where Mrs. 1500 and I got married and then lived for seven years, Madison, Wisconsin:
I parked near the capitol building and first went to the farmers’ market. I’m obsessed with farmers’ market and none compare to the one Dane County puts on. The vendors set up shop around the capitol square, selling vegetables, plants and baked goods. When we lived in Madison, we rarely missed it.
The Badgers were playing Ohio State that night, so the atmosphere was full of energy. I walked a lap around the square, but didn’t want to wait in line to buy something (I hate lines!), so left empty handed:
I then walked down State Street. State Street is a pedestrian mall that connects the capitol building with the University of Wisconsin campus:
My goal was the Mediterranean Cafe. I love Middle Eastern food and this place is one of my favorites.
I had lunch and then charged back up State Street. The farmers’ market was almost done for the day and the lines were much shorter, so I grabbed a cookie. No need to put that baby in a bag Mrs. Cookie saleswoman. I’m eating it now. Right. Now.
I scurried back to my car and checked the time. I hadn’t even been parked for two hours and it was already time to leave. I had people to meet and things to do.
This made me sad. I wanted to spend two weeks reconnecting with my old town and I didn’t even get two hours. I sat in the car for a moment and collected my thoughts. The conclusion I came to was this:
One of the things I look forward to most in FI life is geographic independence. It will be nothing less that fantastic to spend my time wherever I choose and at a leisurely pace.
There will be constrictions. Our kids go to public schools, so we’ll be grounded for eight months of the year. As far as those other four months go, find me somewhere here:
My rushed trip is how my life has played for the past decade. I don’t think I regret it because all of that work made me financially independent, but I’m tired of the pace now. I look forward to slowing everything down. Tim Ferriss said it best in one of his podcasts:
Luxury to me, is not owning a lot of stuff. Luxury to me is feeling unrushed. It is designing a life that allows you to do what you want with high leverage, with many options, and unrushed.
What about you? If you’re on an FI quest, do you have a burning desire to travel, build something or just enjoy books on a Tuesday morning when everyone else is at work?
Luxury is definitely not owning stuff. I get questions from time to time from concerned citizens worried about deprivation. “You’ve been working so hard. You should treat yourself. Don’t you miss spending a little money?”
Au contraire. I spend money all the time on things that I love. Things that you would consider ridiculous. But that’s okay. They’re important to me.
And as for not buying anything?
I’m buying my freedom. Freedom to do what I want when I want to.
So, yeah, I don’t miss that iPad Pro I didn’t buy.
“You should treat yourself.”
That always drives me nuts because it usually means we should buy ourselves some new object to clutter up life. As you said, the best treat is time.
Mr. 1500 Days recently posted…Ask the Readers: Why FI?
Honestly it’s not what I can do with my time that motivates me to FI. I get very good vacation time, and between holidays and vacation satisfy that need. I also find time to learn and do the things I enjoy at home. No what FI gives me is Freedom. Not freedom to not work as honestly I plan to continue to work in the near term. I mean freedom that if I stop enjoying it, say I get a new boss I hate, my attention span wonders, or the company I work for struggles and does layoffs, then I can just find something else without anxiety. If I decide I don’t want to find something else I can also do that. It puts me in the drivers seat.
Full Time Finance recently posted…The Single Largest Hurdle to Portfolio Returns
I couldn’t have explained my motivation any better than you did above. Not working is not my goal, working when and on what is the ultimate goal and hopefully getting closer day by day.
Yeah, options is what it all comes down to!
Having reflected on this a lot lately, FI is my goal so that I can have more time with friends and family, especially the kiddos. I don’t need a lot of stuff, I just don’t want to miss out on time with them.
” I just don’t want to miss out on time with them.”
I know, right? My oldest is 9! Half of my time with her is over! It scares me.
Probably less than that………I mean she will be a TEENAGER in 4 years……….then she won’t even want to look at you, let alone spend time with you!! lmao!! 😉
Honestly, I am striving for financial independence so that I have options. I feel like I should have some singular goal that is driving me, but I don’t. I want to be able to continue working if that’s what I feel like in the future. Or start some new career path even if it means an entry level job (and salary). Or maybe just take some time off to sit around and read. I’d like to spend time getting better at various musical instruments. I’d like to spend time working with some non-profit groups. I’d like to spend more time writing and learning and exploring.
There are a lot of different things that I want to do, and I’d like the option to pursue them when I feel like it.
Matt @ Optimize Your Life recently posted…Get Rich Faster with an HSA
Throughout the early years, people encourage you to find hobbies and activities you like to do. Then, you graduate college, get a job, go to work and BOOM. Very little free time. Suddenly all those hobbies and activities you’ve curated get pushed aside by the humdrum of having a job.
Skip that. I want to work on my hobbies again. I want to be able to play video games. To travel. Spend more time with my family. Start a family of my own. Having to be somewhere else 40+ hours a week takes away from having a fulfilling life.
I’ve a burning desire to be able to determine myself what to do and when (within the boundaries that kids provide for now). Having time to do things I actually enjoy instead of doing things I have to because someone pays me for it, sounds great in my mind.
That being said, I would love to help other got to where we are and where we are going (i.e. FI). Seems like a very rewarding way to spend some time after FI.
Team CF recently posted…Kids birthday Gifts – What’s “Normal”?
I wanted FI because of time.
When I was working, there was absolutely NO time for anything. No time to see my kids. No time to improve myself. No time to learn anything new. No time to read a book.
It sucked! A life that only had time for work, eating, and few hours to do yard work on the weekends, was not what I wanted out of life.
FI meant I could buy back my time. I could spend time with my kids. I could read a book, and learn new skills. Yes, I could even travel….
Now that I’m FI, I’m still busy…but I’ve gained control of my time again.
It’s worth it!
“When I was working, there was absolutely NO time for anything.”
Yeah, I don’t know how people can do it for 40 years. I haven’t even logged 20 years yet and I can feel it grinding me down…
Luxury is being able to wake up when you want and cook a nice big breakfast without having to worry about getting to work on time. I experience luxury every Saturday and Sunday with my wife and our friends, bacon & eggs.
One long weekend sounds pretty good to me.
This topic has been on my mind a lot recently. What are we retiring from and what are we retiring to? For me I just have to look at the hours spent getting to and from work and working itself. It makes me wonder, quite rightly whether spending 10 hours of my day this way is what I want to do. The answer if of course not! I don’t hate my job but there are so many other more interesting and fulfilling things to do with that 10 hours.
We’ll be tied school vacation time for our travel adventures too, but we spun the globe this weekend with the kids and planned a future trip to Australia and New Zealand! Now, where did I put those credit card points?……
Mrs. PIE recently posted…Not now, I’m Busy
New Zealand! That is on my list too! UR points for the win!
Financial independence is, for us, just what it says it is. Independence due to good finances. Enough of my well-planned life has gone totally awry to assure me that whatever I think financial independence will give me, there will surely be something else I really need from it later on. I am wise to my inability to predict life. A nice pile of money makes the bad things easier to navigate.
We learned this at a visceral level when our oldest was dxed with autism, we had juuuuust paid off all of our debt and we could afford the doctors (lots of autism-specific doctors are very expensive and/or don’t take insurance…we finally found a lovely one that just codes our visits all well-checks), the special diet and the therapies…for a few months. When the money ran out and my in-laws rode to the rescue with their truly massive pile of money we swore to ourselves that we would get to the other side of the current storm and then financial independence would be our driving force. Our son is doing extremely well now but we are painfully aware of how vulnerable every family is to the vagaries of life. One day we will need a lot of money again, for us or for our kids or for their families. It will be there. A levee, of sorts, against life. And not the New Orleans kind of levee. 😉 Our sons are being taught to do the same. They have lived this uncertainty with us and I hope it makes it clear to them that they can do something about it, that they can save and spend carefully and be prepared.
“A nice pile of money makes the bad things easier to navigate.”
Yep, it makes it much easier to absorb whatever curveballs life tosses us.
Best of luck with your son.
Thank you. We have been very, very blessed that the health issues that piggybacked onto the diagnosis have been resolved and he is happy and healthy again.
I am definitely not glad that the whole thing has happened because, OF COURSE, but I am glad that we had an opportunity to learn so clearly the value of and the security of having extra money saved for drama. Being able to pay for what has to be done makes it so much easier to deal with the emotions and such that go with it. I have seen a couple of friends in similar situations get divorced over the money issues and stress and pain that goes with all of this. What if they had just been able to pay the bills?
I want none of the above. I’m not even asking for extra time for family as I feel I have a sufficient amount now. What I want from becoming FI is something that, in theory, could be had right now, or it might be something that FI can’t ever afford me: freedom from worry. I am always creating the worst disaster in my head. Case in point? It’s barely 7am and I’ve already contemplated having cancer in a salivary gland (I’ve looked it up… it’s very rare) and having to take a dog sitting client to court because a client, who just returned from Asia last night, didn’t respond to my one single text about payment so it *must* mean they’re not planning to pay me!?!
FI won’t fix all my issues (clearly), but it will definitely give me more confidence that I can handle at least a few of my “worst case scenario” imaginings, like my husband passing away or either of us becoming too old or disabled to work.
For me FI is pretty morbid and serious, not adventurous or luxury.
Don’t I sound fun?!? 🙂
SJ, I think we were separated at birth because your brain sounds a lot like mine! I worry about all kinds of nonsense. Money helps, but trust me, you’ll find new things to worry about. I am working on this now!
I must say that money does make it all a little better now. I’m definitely in a better place.
I really really like the idea of tracking your FI goals. It’s easy to get overwhelmed with that amount of freedom, so even having a loose set of guidelines/to-dos would be helpful.
Ahhh, it’s so nice to get those little tastes of freedom! Mr. Picky Pincher and I took a three-day weekend last week to move into our house, and it physically hurt to go back to work today. Oof.
Once we achieve FI, I would love to travel more. I’ve gotten to travel/live abroad, but Mr. Picky Pincher has never left America. I would love to take him to my favorite spots abroad and have some great adventures! 🙂
Mrs. Picky Pincher recently posted…What a Frugal Weekend!
Never left America! Holy cow, you have some catching up to do!
I am a builder. I can’t imagine a traditional retirement, but having more flexibility to pursue projects I enjoy is what FI means to me. I’m kind of there now – I work on my own business I am passionate about – but there is still the pressure to bring in enough money. Hopefully future projects won’t have that need…
Brian – Rental Mindset recently posted…What the Heck is an Investment Thesis and Why You Need to Know
“I am a builder.”
Heck yeah!
I’ve been struggling with the “retiring to” goals for the past couple years. If I’m being totally honest, I’m still more motivated by retiring from my current work than towards a specific thing.
I keep coming back to the idea of activity diversity: that I want to have my hours spread among a lot of smaller enjoyable things (boardgames, time with friends, working out, walks, naps, movies, writing, etc.) rather than a single big goal.
Still, I do think people need a few big goals. Writing is currently my only big one. But I may borrow your idea for an ongoing FI goal list.
Done by Forty recently posted…Your Purchases Can’t Buy You Class
Writing is my main big one as well.
I do need one big core activity, but it won’t occupy more than 20 hours per week, if even that.
It’s the perfect day to ask this: it’s Monday and it’s cold and it’s dark, it was a heck of feat to get out of bed today. 😛
I think for me it is exactly the above: the idea that my time isn’t really mine. As long as I am not FI and I am working a job, someone else has power over me. I mean sure, the market has power over my investments, too, but at least I have some say in where I allocate my money. With a job I may have a say of what job to take but generally speaking the 40 hours or so a week are pretty much set in stone.
Of course, like most people above I do want to travel more, perfect my harp playing and create more music, I want to write more, and it’s important to our family to have someone at home for the kids as they head into the tumultuous high school years. I also want the freedom of movement, to be able to go anywhere I want when the mood (or amazing seat sale) dictates instead of being stuck trying to figure out vacation days with my colleagues.
Tucker @ workingundertime recently posted…Feeling stupid can make you smarter
Harp playing? Holy cow, that is cool!
You know, I actually like the title, especially if you pronounce “Why FI” like wi-fi. It’s catchy.
My why FI is about autonomy. I am looking to have more control in deciding how I live my life. Currently, I’ve got a schedule that dictates where I need to be at what time, and once I’m there, I’m pulled in a dozen different directions.
FI allows me to make choices that have nothing to do with money. I can choose to work in New Zealand for awhile, and I’m seriously exploring this possibility. The job would pay a lot less, and the cost of living a bit higher, but I don’t care. I’ve got FI.
I’m certainly looking forward to doing new things as an early retiree. I also like the idea of missing out on some things, not because I can’t due to a work schedule, but by choice. FI gives me the opportunity to say Yes and No on my own terms, not based on someone else’s.
Cheers!
-PoF
I’m pretty FI for a white guy! (I hate that song)
New Zealand! Do they have beer there?
Yes! 94 breweries.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/place/list/?c_id=NZ&s_id=0&brewery=Y
I miss In Living Color. Remember the FI girls?
PhysicianOnFIRE recently posted…The Live on Half Challenge
Great post! FI to me is the ability to leave my job when I want and to work at something less stressful down the road if I want without worrying about paying the bills. Once we pull the trigger, which could be tomorrow or in a couple years, we plan to ride our bikes around the country for a few months. After that, our list includes living for a time in South America and Europe at some point. Oh, and I haven’t had the chance to try Pliney the Elder yet, so that’s on the list too.
This is the most important question of all, for all of us on the FIRE path.
Why FI? Because (quoting Heinlein) “Specialization is for insects”. I have spent my whole life doing one thing. I have become pretty good at that thing. But it is one thing. I have but one life. It seems insane to spend that whole life doing one thing. I want to see more, do more, be more. I want to lie on my death bed (hopefully when I’m really really old) and know that I squeezed everything I possibly could out of my ever so brief time here.
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“Specialization is for insects!”
Hadn’t heard that one, but love it! Life is too short not to experience as much as you want…
One of my favorite quotes. Here is the full quote:
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” Robert Heinlein
There is nothing better than the luxury of time when it comes to being in the moment while visiting *or* while being at home. I used to enjoy traveling some, but post-FI traveling has become way way way way (….) way better. School calendars do restrict it some now but even 3-4 months a year moving slowly (just 1-2 hubs max, with side trips from it) is so much fun.
I can’t post an image, but you may feel free to use the result of this – 1.5 years in and we decided to just up and live abroad now (in Cuenca, Ecuador) and it’s just so much fun.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=aus-lhr-dus-szg,szg-lowz,lowz-vce,vce-cfu-jtr-jmk-gpa-vce-dbv-ath-adb-spu-vce,vce-44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E,44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E-flr-44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E,44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E-N44+E9-44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E,44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E-eba-44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E,44.2382%b0+N+10.1272%b0+E-fco,fco-cnx,cnx-rep,rep-cnx,cnx-hkt,hkt-cnx,cnx-bkk,bkk-kbv,kbv-kul,kul-jhb,jhb-sin,sin-bkk-syd,syd-akl-chc,chc-zqn-mfn-zqn-gmn-wlg-pmr-rot-akl,akl-nrt-gum-ror,ror-c23-ror,ror-icn-pek,pek-szv-pvg,pvg-ord-ewr-mia-kvrb,kvrb-fll-aus,aus-den,den-oak,sjc-dfw-mia-gye-cue
(oh, and travel hacking FTMFW!! 🙂 )
“I used to enjoy traveling some, but post-FI traveling has become way way way way (….) way better.”
Love it.
Money, for me, isn’t what it can buy in material possessions, but it means intangibles such as freedom and peace of mind.
Dividend Growth Investor recently posted…Six Dividend Machines Boosting Dividends
You know why I want to achieve FI as I wrote a post for you on wanting to travel around the world. 😉
It basically comes down the the desire to have more choices and freedom in my life. I want to decide what I want to do with my time rather than being tied to a 9-5 job and only have “free time” outside of work. Shouldn’t be the other way around? Have lots of free time and decide when, where, what you want to do for work? That’s my dream. 🙂
Seeing last week’s responses next to your point on geographic diversity and time as a luxury led to an interesting reflection for me…
As a community (I dare not call it a “movement”), people working towards FIRE appear to be some of the highest achieving, highest earning, highest innovating, highest aiming, thoughtful and intentional people in our society. We analyze, we deliberate, we plan, we execute, we demonstrate discipline and we have the internal fortitude to eschew peer pressure/social convention. Heck, this group might be considered “the 1%” if that were measured by a different set of criteria.
Here’s the interesting thing – despite being capable of attaining almost any pursuit we set ourselves to; none of us (at least that I’m aware of) believe that acquiring material possessions are a key factor to our happiness. As a group, we could have almost anything and yet we all chose to focus our primary efforts elsewhere.
Maybe I am overlooking the inherent selection bias or something, but I find that interesting.
Ding Ding Ding! Comment of the day!
I like the way you think JD!
Yeah, we are a thoughtful bunch and it’s interesting that we’re all on a similar path. I hate to say this for fear of sounding arrogant, but I think the “freedom from possessions” mentality is a common trait among those who are truly enlightened.
Being unrushed is such a luxury in our modern life. Taking this yearlong sabbatical hasn’t been quite to say the least but it’s been on our terms. We will it as full as we like. Then sometimes we ramp up and other times we need to scale back. I enjoy our lives being full, but really only full of the things I pick.
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For me, mainly it was to get away from the work situation. I also wanted to be a stay-at-home-dad and it was the right timing.
As for the future, I want to travel more, but not forever. I want to take a year to travel around the world in the next 3-5 years. After that, we’ll probably go back to traveling once per year. Maybe we’ll travel more once the kid is out of the house.
FI is awesome because you can do whatever you want at a more relaxed pace. Life is a lot better now that I don’t have to rush off to work at 7am every morning.
“Life is a lot better now that I don’t have to rush off to work at 7am every morning.”
Understatement of the year!
I think you hit the nail on the head, at least for me. I just got back from a 9 day trip with my family. Normally when we go on a vacation, we have strict time tables, etc. This time, we took our time getting to our ultimate destination and back. It was so liberating to be able to stop wherever we wanted, have the kids get their Jr. Ranger badge at a random National monument without having to worry about being somewhere.
I enjoyed spending 24 hours each day with my wife and kids rather than the 5 hours I get during the week.
That is what I most look forward to in early retirement. It still looks to be 5+ years away for me, but it’s given me something to look forward to.
“I enjoyed spending 24 hours each day with my wife and kids rather than the 5 hours I get during the week.”
That’s fantastic that you have such a great relationship with your spouse. On more than one occasion, I’ve heard co-workers say that the only thing keeping them out of divorce court is their job (time away from the spouse).
Where’s Australia on that map of future travels?!?
😛
!!! Oh man, I totally want to go. I blame Google Maps…
We definitely have the travel “bug” right now and when my youngest goes off to college next fall, we’re hitting the road. We don’t need to see the world – we just want to get out and enjoy some places that are different from where we’ve lived all our lives. We’d give up most of the things we have to have experiences over the next 20 years. After all – when all is said and done, the stuff doesn’t matter anyway.
Vicki@MakeSmarterDecisions recently posted…How to Rent a Car Cheaply (or for free*) this Thanksgiving!
This probably sounds really bad but my goal with FI is to wake up and choose to spend my day however I want to. Right now I sit in meetings that are a waste of time and energy. I go to work most days with a sense of dread.
I want to spend my time cherishing every minute that I spend and feeling energized with the things that I do. Whether that’s spending time with my family, traveling around the world, volunteering in areas that make me come alive. I want to live a life that makes me happy.
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“This probably sounds really bad but my goal with FI is to wake up and choose to spend my day however I want to.”
That sounds about perfect to me!
1. FI = Freedom from obligatory schedules. I want to be places I choose to go, at the time of my choosing and stay as long as the mood strikes me. As many of the previous commentors mentioned, travel flexibility is huge. We want to slow-travel to all sorts of places and not be rushed to cram all the experiences into a few hours or days. This takes money and also it takes being unencumbered by committments to your employer.
2. We also want to have more time and resources to give to others through volunteering and charities.
FI will allow us to balance both of these goals.
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Ah judgement.. I’ve been called a cheap f*** too many times.. I told my coworkers that I contribute 50% of my salary to my 401k (I won’t be able to max it out because I started work mid year) and they look at me like I’m crazy. I shouldn’t have revealed those things, a lesson for the next round!
I agree completely that money is a facilitator, not an end. I want to reach financial independence because I’ve seen my parents struggle with money even while making a six figure income. They have a respectable nest egg to retire with, but not to the point where they won’t have to worry about money 15-20 years down the road. I hope to reach financial independence to give that worry-free life to them.
I’m both aiming to “retire from” my current life and “retire to” an idealized version of what my life would be afterward.
The “retire from” current life means I’m close to burnout as a Software Engineer and I guess I’m hating what I do now, even though I work in the best place in the world.
The “retire to” the ideal life means I keep a list of small goals, big projects, revolutionary ideas and simple routines about which I’m eager to start checking things off. Stated differently: I’m setting the ground for future unhappiness due to very high expectations. Since I’m aware of it, I try to no more answer to “what do you dream about your FI life?” questions with actual revolutionary projects – like changing education system or bringing people to Mars – but I’d like to put emphasis on how will ma day to day life look like: sleeping without an alarm clock, doing physical/outdoor activities in the morning, spending time with my partner at lunch time, working on some cool project driven by passion&purpose in the afternoon (~4 hours per day), early evening is family time, late evening is learning/reading time. That would be a perfect day.
Obviously this cycle is made to be broken by trips (not too many, not too long), deep dives into projects (48 consecutive hours coding jam or hackathon) and whatever would need our attention.
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My initial reasoning for pursuing FI was “I want to wake up every morning and decide what to do with my day.” After a decade of “knowledge work,” that morphed into the similar but somewhat different “I want to decide what I pay attention to/think about.”